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Post by Russg on Dec 3, 2018 0:45:13 GMT
Fans love it and the public loved it (it was MJs biggest selling single of all time in the UK).
Yet it's often the butt of jokes. There was recently a thread on another music forum I visit where you had to rate all of the number ones from 1995 out of ten, and everybody was giving Earth Song 0, 1, 2 or 3 out of 10.
One person described it as "the nadir of Michael Jackson's career."
Whenever I see it mentioned in the press, it is usually with disdain.
What am I missing here?
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Post by mjjfan810 on Dec 3, 2018 1:12:12 GMT
I wasn't aware it was disliked.
I guess some people may accuse it of being preachy or sanctimonious. I personally don't think it's either of those things, but each to their own I guess.
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Post by Russg on Dec 3, 2018 1:24:05 GMT
I wasn't aware it was disliked. I guess some people may accuse it of being preachy or sanctimonious. I personally don't think it's either of those things, but each to their own I guess. Yeah, I guess. It just annoys me, as I think some people just slate it because they don't think it's "cool."
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Post by Snow White on Dec 3, 2018 2:36:53 GMT
That's news to me, I've seen more fans and people disliking or hating Heal The World accusing it to be too sentimental and sacharine. Unless the Javis Cocksucker (that's how his last name sounds like) petty sabotage of Michael's performance in the Brit Awards had a negative effect in some people believing Javis' bullshit excuse he protested because MJ had a Jesus Christ-like behavior.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 3, 2018 3:27:48 GMT
I assume this is a British forum? How snobbish is it? They are probably heavily influenced by the Jarvis Crocker incident and that it's "uncool" to like a sentimental song like that.
I would not jump a conclusion that it is hated by "so many people" based on a forum, though. The song is doing pretty well on streaming sites.
On YouTube it has 190 million views, 1.3 million likes and 35 thousands dislikes. That's a very good ratio. Anything where the dislikes are less than 5 percent of the likes is good. Here it is 2.7 percent. Just a comparison: with Billie Jean that percentage is 3.8 percent.
So just because one forum hates it, I don't see it as a generally disliked song. In certain circles it is just not cool to like sentimental songs.
And perhaps the cynicism of the British media influences them too. I remember when it came out in 1995 I was watching Sky News on a Sunday when they previewed songs coming out the next week and this critic was trying so hard to find a way to trash it. He was going on about what a nonsense the line "what about the elephants, have we lost their trust" was. He was just so try-hard. But then the song went Christmas Number One keeping the Beatles off the Number One spot. LOL.
I actually think with the climate change the song only grew and will only grow further in significance (just like TDCAU).
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Post by respect77 on Dec 3, 2018 4:18:05 GMT
I checked what were the number ones in the UK in 1995. I am sorry but Earth Song is one of the best songs on that list by far. LOL.
December 4 1994 – January 7 1995 East 17 - Stay Another Day 5 January 8 – 28 1995 Rednex - Cotton Eye Joe 3 January 29 – March 18 1995 Celine Dion - Think Twice 7 March 19 – 25 1995 Cher, Chrissie Hynde, Neneh Cherry and Eric Clapton - Love Can Build A Bridge 1 March 26 – April 1 1995 Outhere Brothers - Don't Stop (Wiggle Wiggle) 1 April 2 – 29 1995 Take That - Back For Good 4 April 30 – May 6 1995 Oasis - Some Might Say 1 May 7 – 13 1995 Livin' Joy - Dreamer 1 May 14 – July 1 1995 Robson and Jerome - Unchained Melody / White Cliffs Of Dover 7 July 2 – 29 1995 Outhere Brothers - Boom Boom Boom 4 July 30 – August 19 1995 Take That - Never Forget 3 August 20 – September 2 1995 Blur - Country House 2 September 3 – 16 1995 Michael Jackson - You Are Not Alone 2 September 17 – 23 1995 Shaggy - Boombastic 1 September 24 – October 21 1995 Simply Red - Fairground 4 October 22 – November 4 1995 Coolio feat. LV - Gangsta's Paradise 2 November 5 – December 2 1995 Robson and Jerome - I Believe / Up On The Roof 4 December 3 1995 – January 13 1996 Michael Jackson - Earth Song 6
As for how much these songs are generally liked, I checked out how they are doing on YouTube. The one that comes closest in viewership is You Are Not Alone (165 million views). Then Shaggy's Boombastic (111 million views) and it has a worse hate/love ratio than Earth Song (3.7 percent). Gangsta's Paradise has 94 million views (3.7 percent hate/love ratio) and Cotton Eye Joe some 59 million (4.3 percent hate/love ratio) (as a flagship of the euro dance era, I guess), but most other songs on this list are all but forgotten.
So no, I don't think at all that we have anything to complain about Earth Song and how it is hated. One forum isn't the world.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 5:27:53 GMT
I blame Jarvis Crocker and the media for damaging michael's Image, they see the children, Michael standing like angel and the overwrought soiund and rain abuse.
Of course, I love it and are sure most fans do as well. Its a beautiful song and the video is magic.
Also how many #1 hits did Jarvis Crocker and Pulp had, I call it jealousy as Earth Song was number one for like 7 weeks in the UK wasn't it?
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 3, 2018 6:11:45 GMT
As a British fan, I know the consensus that Russg is referring to, and it extends beyond a random forum. I too have seen sarcastic remarks and disparaging comments about this song in the British media over the years. It's funny, as Earth Song was a huge hit in this country, it is actually in a select few songs to sell over a million copies over here and is his biggest selling single in the UK. But at the same time, the song is also largely associated with THAT Brit Award performance and Jarvis Cockers juvenile stage invasion. The British press were very anti-MJ back in 1996, and Jarvis was hailed as a hero at the time by the tabloids, the pretentious music press and the cynical Britpop crowd.
None of this stopped it from becoming a monster hit and Jarvis's little stunt didn't negatively impact MJ in any way other than more of the usual unfavourable bad press with British media, who already hated MJ anyway. On the other side of the coin, it did lasting damage to Pulp's career, as they were dropped from a major gig supporting Alanis Morrissette on her US tour, effectively ending any chances they had of cracking the American market.
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Post by Snow White on Dec 3, 2018 6:32:50 GMT
On the other side of the coin, it did lasting damage to Pulp's career, as they were dropped from a major gig supporting Alanis Morrissette on her US tour, effectively ending any chances they had of cracking the American market. Was the band affected because they were associated with his idiotic stunt or promoters dropped them because of what JC did? I wouldn't know the cocksucker's name if it wasn't for what he did to Michael, I've never heard Pulp even though they had success in Britain. MJ overshadowed him either way in spite of the tabloids support.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 3, 2018 7:28:09 GMT
On the other side of the coin, it did lasting damage to Pulp's career, as they were dropped from a major gig supporting Alanis Morrissette on her US tour, effectively ending any chances they had of cracking the American market. Was the band affected because they were associated with his idiotic stunt or promoters dropped them because of what JC did? I wouldn't know the cocksucker's name if it wasn't for what he did to Michael, I've never heard Pulp even though they had success in Britain. MJ overshadowed him either way in spite of the tabloids support. I'm not sure if it was Alanis or the promoters who dropped them, all I know is they were dropped as a result of Cockers stunt at The Brits. Of course, this never gets mentioned when the whole debacle gets brought up in the British media, but it would've been a massive blow to the bands career at the time. As it transpired, Pulp's success proved to be relatively short-lived even in their home country.
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Post by ghost on Dec 3, 2018 12:51:14 GMT
I bet you'll find the majority of people who dislike Earth Song, actually dislike Michael Jackson as a whole, and are thus not making an entirely objective opinion on the song itself as they are clouding their judgement with hate. The media does their thinking for them, and if they are told that Earth Song is not cool, that MJ was acting like Jesus at The Brits and that Jarvis Cocker was protesting MJ's megalomania, then these sheeple will just accept that narrative. Sad as it may be, some people are genuinely incapable of independent thought and don't even realise they are just parroting the thoughts and opinions of the media.
Of course, I am happy to accept that music is subjective, and that some people may just genuinely not like the song, that's fine, they are entitled to their opinions. But I bet 95% of Earth Song detractors parrot the same tired clichés as to why they dislike the song and although it may sound a bit patronising of me, I'm not entirely convinced that they reached that opinion through their own critical thinking.
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Post by Russg on Dec 3, 2018 17:28:59 GMT
I assume this is a British forum? How snobbish is it? They are probably heavily influenced by the Jarvis Crocker incident and that it's "uncool" to like a sentimental song like that. I would not jump a conclusion that it is hated by "so many people" based on a forum, though. The song is doing pretty well on streaming sites. On YouTube it has 190 million views, 1.3 million likes and 35 thousands dislikes. That's a very good ratio. Anything where the dislikes are less than 5 percent of the likes is good. Here it is 2.7 percent. Just a comparison: with Billie Jean that percentage is 3.8 percent. So just because one forum hates it, I don't see it as a generally disliked song. In certain circles it is just not cool to like sentimental songs. And perhaps the cynicism of the British media influences them too. I remember when it came out in 1995 I was watching Sky News on a Sunday when they previewed songs coming out the next week and this critic was trying so hard to find a way to trash it. He was going on about what a nonsense the line "what about the elephants, have we lost their trust" was. He was just so try-hard. But then the song went Christmas Number One keeping the Beatles off the Number One spot. LOL. I actually think with the climate change the song only grew and will only grow further in significance (just like TDCAU). Yes, the site is British. It was on Digital Spy Forum, which is mostly populated with gay/bi men like myself, so it's hardly surprising as MJ has never been that popular in LGBT circles.
I think it's a sad state of affairs that we can't have a serious song concerned with the welfare of the planet without people sniggering and making fun of it. Cuz singing about bitches and hoes is apparently so much cooler.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 17:30:22 GMT
Thats the nature of Michael Jackson, sadly most people either love him like us or hate him, very few kind of like him. Sadly the media (Especially British tabloids and to a lesser degree American ones like the National Enquirer and tabloid tv shows like Hard Copy) crucified him from 1986 onwards and the abuse got more venal when the Jordy Chandler farrago began.
Most of it is ignorance, people see the ignorance and gossip and just stop there not wanting to dig deeper to see the man and the myth underneath all the crap.
Jarvis Crocker added his bit, but the reaction of Britpop and arrogant critics backfired as Britpop practically fucked off after 1996/97 (Bittersweet sympathy was the last big Britpop hit) and then Britain started trying to be like American skankpop with acts like All Saints (Girls writhing around on a bed) and Sugababes (13 year old girls singing about sex) along with shitty dance songs taking over the charts and the Boyband craze along with Idol crap like S Club 7, Billie Piper, Atomic Kitten etc. I love Brits trying to sound American.
Oasis's shitty follow up a;bum in 1997 also killed off Britpop. Meanwhile Michael was the Phoenix who would go on to sell out stadiums worldwide with the HIStory tour and then we had Blood on the Dancefloor and Ghosts.
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Post by respect77 on Dec 3, 2018 17:58:02 GMT
I assume this is a British forum? How snobbish is it? They are probably heavily influenced by the Jarvis Crocker incident and that it's "uncool" to like a sentimental song like that. I would not jump a conclusion that it is hated by "so many people" based on a forum, though. The song is doing pretty well on streaming sites. On YouTube it has 190 million views, 1.3 million likes and 35 thousands dislikes. That's a very good ratio. Anything where the dislikes are less than 5 percent of the likes is good. Here it is 2.7 percent. Just a comparison: with Billie Jean that percentage is 3.8 percent. So just because one forum hates it, I don't see it as a generally disliked song. In certain circles it is just not cool to like sentimental songs. And perhaps the cynicism of the British media influences them too. I remember when it came out in 1995 I was watching Sky News on a Sunday when they previewed songs coming out the next week and this critic was trying so hard to find a way to trash it. He was going on about what a nonsense the line "what about the elephants, have we lost their trust" was. He was just so try-hard. But then the song went Christmas Number One keeping the Beatles off the Number One spot. LOL. I actually think with the climate change the song only grew and will only grow further in significance (just like TDCAU). Yes, the site is British. It was on Digital Spy Forum, which is mostly populated with gay/bi men like myself, so it's hardly surprising as MJ has never been that popular in LGBT circles.
I think it's a sad state of affairs that we can't have a serious song concerned with the welfare of the planet without people sniggering and making fun of it. Cuz singing about bitches and hoes is apparently so much cooler.
Isn't that the forum that always had a great deal of MJ haters? So it is hardly representative of anything. Just out of curiousity, how did they rate the other songs from 1995?
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Post by Snow White on Dec 3, 2018 18:23:29 GMT
Given fact many top 10 hits turn out to be crappy infections tracks, it's fair to state the masses have shitty taste in music and don't recognize a great song when they have it in front of them. If I dealt with these people, I'd dare them to watch Earth Song's short to give me valid reasons why they don't like it. I agree with ghost, their disdain for the song must come from their hatred for MJ influenced by the media rather than their own critical thinking.
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