respect77
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Post by respect77 on Oct 4, 2021 9:24:21 GMT
Of course it was a metaphor. And the Britpop movement was too pretentious and up its own ass at the time to take it as a piece of theatre. Only on an MJ forum will you find the terms "pretentious" and "up its own ass" being used with a straight face when defending MJ posing as Jesus Christ. Why does (supposedly, because we don't really know whether MJ meant it that way) "posing as Jesus Christ" need defending at all? Should it be taboo to "pose as Jesus Christ"? If so, why? Religions are just never proven fairy tales, anyway. Also, different branches of Christianity differ in who Jesus was at all. That's been so ever since Jesus lived. Was he divine? Was he just human? Was he both? Depends on which brand of Christianity one subscribes to. (I'd risk to say the historical Jesus would be very much surprised, maybe shocked at the God status he's been assigned to since his death.) So I would say that the very claim that a human being was God and died for the whole world's sins and everyone who doesn't subscribe to this belief goes to Hell, is a rather pretentious and "up its own ass" claim in itself.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 4, 2021 10:53:15 GMT
It's pretty self-evident that Michael was heavily inspired by the Transfiguration of Christ for Brits and WMA Earth Song performances.
Vis a vis the Transfiguration, it means "Jesus himself as the connecting point, acting as the bridge between heaven and earth."
Michael certainly viewed his music in these terms and referred to his concert experiences as a religious one for attendees. He believed in "the union between the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine."
In ES in the two aforementioned performances, you see the laying on of hands on Michael. Especially as he comes down the ramp in the Brits one. I think this comes from two sources.
The Bible is one where its made clear touching Jesus brings healing. The other would be in Michael's experiences of people wanting to touch him for similar reasons. His words on that:
Christ leads people into the promised land of salvation. Michael, arguably, is leading people into the promised land behind him via blinding white light.
I don't see anyone arguing that the Transfiguration of Christ should be taboo in performance though.
But one must understand they are very likely to attract criticism for doing so. Whether you like it or not.
It seems absurd to attempt to deny the very strong religious elements in the Brits performance. Especially the Transfiguration of Christ part.
All in all, Michael evolved Earth Song as performance and got his message across much, much better in later iterations.
Imagine the impact had he done his Bridge Of No Return in 1996 at the Brits! It'd have gone down in legend still spoken of positively to this day.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Oct 4, 2021 11:13:13 GMT
Think we should also discuss that if Michael had a God complex or felt he could heal, they why did he feel that way? I'm not surprised. After all, look at the adulation he received from fans ALL HIS LIFE. And as we know, there was/is a large section of MJ fans that take adulation to a whole new level. The fainting, the crying....that famous scene when he's on his balcony & there are thousands of fans outside, screaming, crying for a glimpse. And then the allegations probably added to a feeling of being tested & turned upon....I can see why Michael may have looked at his life & Jesus's and seen a LOT of parallels. Only a handful of humans have ever had this level of love. And maybe none on Michael's level. Plus the actual experiences of what may have been perceived as healing powers that pg13 mentions in the Rabbi tapes. This is probably from the hundreds of sick children that came to Neverland that later got better. Now, it's wrong to suggest this was because of the trip to Neverland & meeting Michael, but it won't have hindered it and many may have written to MJ afterwards to tell them they were better & attributed the healing to him. We've seen much lesser artists than Michael get God complexes (Kanye) from constantly being surrounded by people telling them how important they are. I'm not surprised it happens. Add to Michael's unparalleled experience of not knowing anything outside that experience, plus having that in every situation he was in, all over the world and like I say - unsurprising. I've said before, we should stop expecting Michael Jackson's behaviour to be 'normal' as his life was a far removed from 'normal' as you can get.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 4, 2021 11:25:13 GMT
I've said before, we should stop expecting Michael Jackson's behaviour to be 'normal' as his life was a far removed from 'normal' as you can get. Since Michael's passing, I think most fans have been on something of a mission to portray him and his life as being 'normal'. Hell, one of the things I always loved about Michael is the fact he was eccentric and NOTHING like anyone else on the planet! The adulation and positive reinforcement Tony mentions Michael had throughout his life must've had a key role in ES, TEASER and how he viewed himself. Michael was on something of a mission to save the world through music and children. But fans should be embracing the fact Michael was eccentric. It was self-expression! And a reaction to his lived experience too, no doubt.
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Post by Russg on Oct 4, 2021 17:25:29 GMT
Only on an MJ forum will you find the terms "pretentious" and "up its own ass" being used with a straight face when defending MJ posing as Jesus Christ. Why does (supposedly, because we don't really know whether MJ meant it that way) "posing as Jesus Christ" need defending at all? Should it be taboo to "pose as Jesus Christ"? If so, why? Religions are just never proven fairy tales, anyway. Also, different branches of Christianity differ in who Jesus was at all. That's been so ever since Jesus lived. Was he divine? Was he just human? Was he both? Depends on which brand of Christianity one subscribes to. (I'd risk to say the historical Jesus would be very much surprised, maybe shocked at the God status he's been assigned to since his death.) So I would say that the very claim that a human being was God and died for the whole world's sins and everyone who doesn't subscribe to this belief goes to Hell, is a rather pretentious and "up its own ass" claim in itself. If the notion of Christ being a divine figure is pretentious to you, then how is MJ posing as that same figure not also pretentious?
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Oct 4, 2021 17:38:32 GMT
Why does (supposedly, because we don't really know whether MJ meant it that way) "posing as Jesus Christ" need defending at all? Should it be taboo to "pose as Jesus Christ"? If so, why? Religions are just never proven fairy tales, anyway. Also, different branches of Christianity differ in who Jesus was at all. That's been so ever since Jesus lived. Was he divine? Was he just human? Was he both? Depends on which brand of Christianity one subscribes to. (I'd risk to say the historical Jesus would be very much surprised, maybe shocked at the God status he's been assigned to since his death.) So I would say that the very claim that a human being was God and died for the whole world's sins and everyone who doesn't subscribe to this belief goes to Hell, is a rather pretentious and "up its own ass" claim in itself. If the notion of Christ being a divine figure is pretentious to you, then how is MJ posing as that same figure not also pretentious? Did MJ ever claim to be God? "Posing as" - which is still just people's interpretation of it, but let's say he did - "posing as" a character is not the same as literally thinking and claiming someone is God. Actors pose as something all the time. Doesn't mean they think they are that character. It was just that: a show. A theatrical performance. Meanwhile Jesus's followers literally claimed him to be God. Which pretty much went out of control as a whole new religion was formed around that dubious claim. So yeah, I'd say it's a tad bit more pretentious than playing a character on stage. I wonder if he had played Zeus or any other Greek or Roman god, would people be similarly offended?
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Post by butterflies2 on Oct 4, 2021 19:23:01 GMT
I don’t think of it as hated, but I did notice that the HIStory era got quiet in North America after it. I think it did well overseas mostly, and if anything, those in the uk are just jealous he was number 1 and not the Beatles, like an elitist thing happening there
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respect77
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Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2021 10:03:16 GMT
I just saw this quote and it reminded me of the irony of the Brit pop audience considering MJ arrogant and full of himself or whatever they saw in that Earth Song performance.
'We are the biggest band in Britain of all time, ever. The funny thing is, all that fucking mouthing off three years ago about how we were going to be the biggest band in the world – we actually went and did it.' Noel Gallagher
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Nov 23, 2023 19:55:22 GMT
looking back i can understand why some people don't like this song. don't get me wrong i believe helping the earth, climate change, etc. but Micheal was naive. he believed that he was Michael Jackson and that he could change that. smh.
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Post by butterflies2 on Nov 23, 2023 20:08:14 GMT
There’s nothing like offering hope to others through your art. I think that was his intention, and for me, I feel he made the world feel a little more Hopeful. At least in my case
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 20:36:36 GMT
I was in the middle of responding to Respect when I realised that the comment was over 2 years old. Bumping really old threads again.
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Post by butterflies2 on Nov 23, 2023 20:59:01 GMT
And what’s wrong with bumping a thread?
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