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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jan 11, 2021 14:00:41 GMT
Yes, she IS MJ’s daughter, who has her own musical taste and direction. I completely agree with what you’re saying, respect77. So now, just because Paris doesn’t sing the same “R&B”/“Soul,” “Motown” and “Pop” genres Michael became so well-known for, ‘she can’t possibly be his daughter’? That’s an idea SO utterly ridiculous, it’s not even funny. Hmm....According to some people, apparently, they’re ALL supposed to know how to dance exceptionally well and do the “Moonwalk,” too. OH, PLEASE!!!
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Mar 8, 2021 9:36:47 GMT
i would call his children biracial. some biracial children like to be identify as black. some like to be identify as white and some like to be called biracial which they are in my opinion.
i say if the children wanna be seen as black then that's their choice. i mean they do have some of black dna from michael and some white dna from deddie. i don't know about bigi (blanket). it been said the lady is biracial.
i think the children are lighter because of michael vitiligo as been said. Prince has it and i'm pretty sure if the kids wanna have children one day it could be chance at least one of their kids will have it too.
it's runs in the family it's hereditary.
but michael is their biological father. even if he wasn't they still his kids.
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Post by Michaels Lover on Sept 23, 2021 13:26:17 GMT
Paris also wanted to let the world know that although some see her as White that she does not view herself as such. She says she’s a Black woman and that her dad taught her to be proud of being Black:
Via RS: “He [Michael Jackson] is my father,” she says, making fierce eye contact. “He will always be my father. He never wasn’t, and he never will not be. People that knew him really well say they see him in me, that it’s almost scary.
“I consider myself black,” she says, adding later that her dad “would look me in the eyes and he’d point his finger at me and he’d be like, ‘You’re black. Be proud of your roots.’ And I’d be like, ‘OK, he’s my dad, why would he lie to me?’ So I just believe what he told me. ‘Cause, to my knowledge, he’s never lied to me. “Most people that don’t know me call me white,” Paris concedes. “I’ve got light skin and, especially since I’ve had my hair blond, I look like I was born in Finland or something.” She points out that it’s far from unheard of for mixed-race kids to look like her – accurately noting that her complexion and eye color are similar to the TV actor Wentworth Miller’s, who has a black dad and a white mom. www.iloveoldschoolmusic.com/paris-jackson-dropped-gems-about-dad-mj-being-killed-and-her-blackness-im-not-white/?fbclid=IwAR2TyGEkxUMH-aM3wst1qNckyEvdGC8HrngRSJO9N04b199pnWQ919oIYFU
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Post by pg13 on Sept 24, 2021 22:08:40 GMT
Some interesting views here. I have a few thoughts myself, but first.... ^^ How do you explain Prince's vitiligo then? Simple - Non-sequitur. It really isn't a given that this means Michael is his biological father. It's absolutely NOT necessarily hereditary as 70% of people with vitiligo have no family history of it. From UMass Chan Medical School, a public medical school in Worcester, Massachusetts: And the British Skin Foundation: Therefore, it does not follow that Michael Jackson is the biological father of Prince simply because Prince has vitiligo. Vitiligo effects around 1% of ppl. In the United States where its believed 1-2% of the population has vitiligo, this equates to 3.2 to 6.5 million people. Globally, its believed the rate is 1% and this equates to 79 million people. These two figures alone demonstrate that vitiligo is actually very common. If you require further information or evidence, try this: The above information is from the same source as above - UMass Chan Medical School. The British Skin Foundation concurs: It's common, according to medical professionals. Still require further information? National Center For Advancing Translational Sciences: And: Vitiligo is NOT considered rare as it is common.
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Post by pg13 on Sept 24, 2021 22:50:12 GMT
I think Prince summed it up pretty well in this tweet. Obviously Paris feels differently and has said she is black, which is of course silly, but at the end of the day, who does it effect other than themselves? "The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb”. That's a very interesting saying Prince chose to use in response to someone who essentially said he wasn't a "real" Jackson, that is not biologically. The phrase really means that unrelated people who CHOOSE to form bonds actually have a much stronger one than those related by blood. In context of what he's responding to, Prince is acknowledging that Michael isn't biologically related to him. Obviously, biological relatedness is not the only way to become a parent. Since the debate is strictly focused on DNA relatedness, we stick with that. Prince comes across as mature, confident and, yes, a lot more intelligent than Paris. Much less emotionally impulsive than her too. In short, there's a lot more credibility in what Prince said compared to Paris saying the opposite. Paris saying, "And I’d be like, ‘OK, he’s my dad, why would he lie to me?’ So I just believe what he told me. ‘Cause, to my knowledge, he’s never lied to me", is her doing three things: 1) Confirmation Bias 2) Explanation effect 3) Appeal To Authority Logical Fallacy Prince did none of those things and seems pretty credible. And that helps him a lot. With the above firmly in mind, I agree with these comments: I don't believe PPB are biologically related to Michael, and that is in no way influenced by hater rhetorics or the media. Almost every member of the Jackson family looks like a Jackson in some way or other. They are a very distinctive looking family, and even third generation Jacksons closely resemble their aunties, uncles and even Joe and Katherine. MJ's kids do not look like Jacksons, nor do they appear to be black. It's called having eyes. Sorry (actually not) if that offends some fans, but it's kind of obvious to me. Of course, they are Jacksons in every way that is meaningful, they were raised in that family and brought into the world by a Jackson, but biologically, it doesn't ring true to me and I wouldn't be surprised if the kids themselves knew that at this point. Yeah that's how I feel. And again, being the biological parent is of very little importance compared to being a loving & visible parent but my 'concern'* would be form the kid's emotional state as people deserve to know where they came from. I mean, were they told they were his biological kids but also doubt it or do they know a different truth from us. I'm reminded of the last few lines in Black or White, I know the lyric in the Dangerous booklet is 'It's tough for you to get by' but he actually sings 'it's touch for you to be black' (something that's clearer on the DWT Rehearsal) and I wonder if he thought it would be easier for them. I don't know. And like MattyJam said voicing stuff like this, I know will piss some people off, so I'm sort of sorry (I think) for that. ,But I think it's an interesting sociological discussion and talking about it doesn't make you less of a fan or (when discussed properly) is disrespectful.It's "It's tough for you to be that!", especially from lipreading Michael doing that song live. Bit in bold - especially that! And agree with the general thrust of Russ' opinion although I wouldn't put it quite as bluntly!
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Post by pg13 on Sept 27, 2021 9:25:39 GMT
Now this is precisely the kind of ultra-woke twaddle that makes me despair for the future of mankind. Paris is either bio related or not. Those are the facts and it is irrelevant how she chooses to identify and what she believes her truth to be. I agree regarding the "ultra-woke twaddle" and I was amazed to come across this bit of nonsense in the Irish Times this morning too: And this friend was a lawyer too! No doubt the lawyer would assert I'm Irish and, therefore, not white even though I would steadfastly assert I'm NOT Irish and most certainly am white. Looking at their skin, Irish people in the Republic of Ireland and the Northern Irish in Northern Ireland are very, very obviously white where their skin tone is white. Both countries have Asians, Africans and so on living there. But ultra woke twaddle is attempting to not only subvert reality, but also to encourage people in general to believe they are victims. And not just victims, but ETERNAL victims at that. Nonsensical claptrap! That brings me to Paris. You're quite right that the discussion/debate is centred around whether or not she's biologically related to Michael Jackson. Prince's comment is very insightful in this regard whereas Paris is the opposite. Likewise, Paris choosing to identify as black is more ultra-woke twaddle in addition to the other factors I mentioned previously. I recall quite a number of people making references to Rachel Dolazeal. It seems very likely that Rachel identified as black around the time her parents started adopting back children. Dolazeal admitted she felt like their mother whilst doing things for them such as changing nappies and so on. A bit later, she started calling a black man "dad" and her adopted brother "son". The adopted brother apparently still calls her "mother". Point here is, Dolazeal admitted that all of this identification as black was a result of her various relationships with black people and the black community. It best described how she and they socialised, she said. Even if she has since lost her job and all those people. I submit a similar kind of sociological phenomenon comes into play here for Paris in light of her comments to Rolling Stone. To be sure, Paris hasn't altered her physical appearance to appear "black" like Dolazeal, but that's not a requirement. Socialisation has a major, natural impact on how human beings choose to identify. And, largely due to that, some believe that identification with race should be one of those things on a spectrum. Even if your skin tone suggests otherwise. A major argument is race is not a biological reality which is true. Yet the concept of race is clearly real for many, many people. Blurring the lines has consequences as Dolazeal found out. Indeed, black people are understandably very, very protective of their community and will want to limit who can legitimately identify with them. That's natural too. As Tony R said on page 2, I think, the topic makes for an interesting sociological discussion. I quite agree. Prince is rather interesting here as he doesn't appear to need to identify as black in order to feel a familial bond with Michael and the Jacksons. That's very interesting, indeed!
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Sept 27, 2021 9:50:46 GMT
I mentioned in my earlier posts that I don't like to think about this element of MJ's life too much.
Although I firmly believe he was a great father (all evidence seems to point to that, rather than me just believing it as a fan).
But why did he want to his children to be 'white'?
This is based on a presumption I guess to some extent, maybe he thought they would be darker in colour. And maybe he didn't care about what colour their skin was as long as they were happy & healthy. But like I think I said, this one really does add credence to those who say that MJ wanted to be white.
We all know the vitiligo was real, but to those who don't know, plus they see that he had surgery to reduce his 'black' features, plus that he had 'white' kids...it's all makes for one difficult conversation (oh, and 2 white wives).
And yes, I believe that he likely reduced his black features as he wanted to look anything like Joe. But there's a lot of unhappy 'co-incidences' here.
I'm always pleased when I see clips of MJ talking about being a proud black man, plus some of the lyrics on HIStory, plus the fact that he surrounded himself with strong black people in his work (including all the female interests up to LMP on YANA) - as I admit for a while as much as I love him, I felt for a while that the white argument had legs.
Maybe with PPB, because Mike's skin at that point was white that it was as simple as wanting his kids to look like him.
We'll never know. Just one of many aspects of his life that we can discuss until the cows come home. Like I've also said, I just hope that the kids have more answers than we do. It's hard growing up not really knowing where you come from biologically. Not to mention strangers discussing it.
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Post by WildStyle on Sept 27, 2021 10:52:39 GMT
I'm pretty sick of the term "woke" being weaponised. It used to mean something totally different to the African American community until right wingers once again took over the narrative of it. Now it's just a catch all term to demean anybody on the left. But I digress.
I found it interesting that Tom Mesereau straight up said in an interview maybe last year (can't remember the exact interview) that MJ had "two white children and one hispanic child". Made me think that he'd seen some documents of some sort in his work for MJ.
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Post by pg13 on Sept 27, 2021 11:16:01 GMT
I found it interesting that Tom Mesereau straight up said in an interview maybe last year (can't remember the exact interview) that MJ had "two white children and one hispanic child". Made me think that he'd seen some documents of some sort in his work for MJ. Here's his exact words: Link: mesereaulaw.com/the-litigation-commentary-review-asks-tom-mesereau-20-questions/It's pretty insightful that he chose to highlight that undeniable aspect of Michael Jackson as part of his approach. Something he would have obviously had to discuss with Michael at length. The client has to consent and be on board with the approach suggested by their lawyer otherwise it cannot stand. Quite revealing, indeed.
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Post by pg13 on Sept 28, 2021 11:08:22 GMT
I mentioned in my earlier posts that I don't like to think about this element of MJ's life too much. Although I firmly believe he was a great father (all evidence seems to point to that, rather than me just believing it as a fan). But why did he want to his children to be 'white'? This is based on a presumption I guess to some extent, maybe he thought they would be darker in colour. And maybe he didn't care about what colour their skin was as long as they were happy & healthy. But like I think I said, this one really does add credence to those who say that MJ wanted to be white. We all know the vitiligo was real, but to those who don't know, plus they see that he had surgery to reduce his 'black' features, plus that he had 'white' kids...it's all makes for one difficult conversation (oh, and 2 white wives). And yes, I believe that he likely reduced his black features as he wanted to look anything like Joe. But there's a lot of unhappy 'co-incidences' here. I'm always pleased when I see clips of MJ talking about being a proud black man, plus some of the lyrics on HIStory, plus the fact that he surrounded himself with strong black people in his work (including all the female interests up to LMP on YANA) - as I admit for a while as much as I love him, I felt for a while that the white argument had legs. Maybe with PPB, because Mike's skin at that point was white that it was as simple as wanting his kids to look like him. We'll never know. Just one of many aspects of his life that we can discuss until the cows come home. Like I've also said, I just hope that the kids have more answers than we do. It's hard growing up not really knowing where you come from biologically. Not to mention strangers discussing it. As fans, I think we're more likely to want to take a more nuanced look at Michael and some of his choices. It makes sense as we've invested a lot if ourselves, time and money in him. Those who aren't fans aren't very likely to, so they'll see all this as confirmation of what they previously believed. Confirmation bias plus explanation effect largely results in people not changing their views even when presented with new facts OR a new, valid viewpoint. That said, I quite agree Michael had self-esteem issued with his appearance which we already know from his Oprah Interview plus what he told Boteach. But it may well be that this wasn't a factor in him choosing not to have biological children. I'm reminded of this he said once: It may well be that Prince, Paris and Blanket were the beginnings of Michael being well on his way to realising this dream. Perhaps he wanted to do this first before having his own biological children later on? Perhaps his thinking was these children would be accepted as his by that time? Of course, the events of 2003 to 2009 seriously put paid to this specific dream he had. But I think this highlights Mesereau's approach to the Arvizo trial. Michael transcended race and was widely considered to have done so across the world. Something too many revisionist fans have forgotten since 2009. It doesn't have to suggest he was ashamed of the colour of his own skin or that of the community he was born into. And I think Michael's attitude here of wanting a family reflecting the global population likely rubbed off on Prince with his "the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb" tweet. Seems to me, for Michael family could transcend DNA which rather explains his choices to be really close to the Culkins, Cascios, Chandlers, Safechucks, Robsons and Arvizos, for example. As Mesereau said, "The prosecutors’ narrow perspective on race, as well as the world of Michael Jackson, hurt them considerably."That applies to many, I find. Paris is a different issue and her attitude in RS doesn't seem to sit well with Michael's own professed attitude. Vis a vis children from every continent....."It don't matter if you're black or white!" Unfortunately for him, it matters around the world, especially in the United States of America.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Sept 28, 2021 21:09:02 GMT
😒😒😒😒....
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Sept 28, 2021 22:07:57 GMT
I'm gonna leave this thread because we have our own opinions and we all don't agree with each other. this is my last post on this thread until some important comes up.
At the end of the day that's his children. I Believe Their Are Biological His. Now Something Comes Up Saying Other Wise That's My Opinion And I'm Sticking With It. you know we now live in a time where you don't need two parents to raise children. that's goes against my faith but it's the truth.
i feel we going too much in Michael personal life which he said many times before he loved his privacy. so we as fans dissing his privacy because we wanna know whatever not his His Children black or white?
like really? didn't he go though that when he was alive by the media? This My Opinion The Kids Are Biracial Now If The Children Wanna Be Identify As Black That Their Choice.
as for Michael vitiligo. i think it affected the kids. which making them lighter than their was suppose be.
it is true that Michael wanted to adopt kids before all the false allegations came out. he also wanted to adopt kids with Brooke until she decline his marriage request because they was too young and her parents.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Sept 28, 2021 22:25:51 GMT
This is based on a presumption I guess to some extent, maybe he thought they would be darker in colour. And maybe he didn't care about what colour their skin was as long as they were happy & healthy. But like I think I said, this one really does add credence to those who say that MJ wanted to be white. Maybe with PPB, because Mike's skin at that point was white that it was as simple as wanting his kids to look like him. that's what i think too if their not his.
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Post by Michaels Lover on Sept 28, 2021 23:43:33 GMT
I also BELIEVE they're biologically his. We're just posting opinions here, and no one can prove that those kids are not biologically his. We can't know for sure if they are, but I choose to believe that they are
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Oct 10, 2021 1:00:44 GMT
Okay i take back what i said, Prince and Paris doesn't look anything like Michael but Bigi (Blanket) does. i think Prince and Paris take more after Debbie? ? ? ?
anyway, i still think the children are his biologically. we probably will never know for sure but i'm sticking the fact they are. nothing against Prince and Paris. Michael was great father whatever or not they not his biologically.
please don't kill me Michael.... >﹏<"
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