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Post by pg13 on Oct 14, 2020 7:02:45 GMT
If you read my posts above, I had gotten past the “Anorexia” thing, and was expressing how I don’t think he was healthy enough to have gotten through 10 concerts let alone 50, and that his diet was one of the issues. With our other differences on this aside, don’t you agree that he was greatly pressured (or, forced, which seemed more likely) by “A.E.G.-LIVE” to do the 50 show-dates, when he really only wanted to do ten shows? What do you honestly think?Michael Jackson did not sign a contract for only 10 concerts - no promoter would agree to just 10 shows when production costs are £25 million! It makes no money for artist or promoter. Michael actually signed for 31 straight shows which is break even for production costs. Furthermore, he agreed to a clause that states shows can be increased by mutual agreement between artist and promoter. He wasn't forced into these shows. Ortega testified that Michael wised up when told the show would miss opening dates. That's when ortega said whatever issues MJ had seemed to disappear and he was very involved with the production again. If we do a timeline based on the Murray trial, it'll become clearer what happened to MJ which Dr Shafer already summarised a few years ago.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Oct 14, 2020 8:38:04 GMT
With our other differences on this aside, don’t you agree that he was greatly pressured (or, forced, which seemed more likely) by “A.E.G.-LIVE” to do the 50 show-dates, when he really only wanted to do ten shows? What do you honestly think? Michael Jackson did not sign a contract for only 10 concerts - no promoter would agree to just 10 shows when production costs are £25 million!
It makes no money for artist or promoter.
Michael actually signed for 31 straight shows which is break even for production costs. Furthermore, he agreed to a clause that states shows can be increased by mutual agreement between artist and promoter.
He wasn’t forced into these shows. Ortega testified that Michael wised up when told the show would miss opening dates. That’s when Ortega said whatever issues MJ had seemed to disappear and he was very involved with the production again.
If we do a timeline based on the Murray trial, it’ll become clearer what happened to MJ which Dr. Shafer already summarised a few years ago. But, pg13, I think that BOTH the proceedings of the Murray trial AND the Jackson family’s lawsuit against “A.E.G.-LIVE” —— as the events of each court case had transpired —— became increasingly more and more about: That’s what both of these court cases’ proceedings seemed like to me, because, the court system in each case was putting less and less responsibility on the defendants’ behavior and actions, which led up to what ultimately happened.
Blaming something on a man who was not even present in the courtroom to have defended himself against his accusers* (*even when the subject matter of the accusations is different in nature, the accusations were brought forth in a very indirect way [yet, they were made during both court cases, nevertheless], and the accusers are actual representatives of both sides in two completely separate court cases that took place YEARS after the man was deceased) is totally unfair to Michael, his memory, and his reputation, in my view.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 14, 2020 11:45:14 GMT
Michael Jackson did not sign a contract for only 10 concerts - no promoter would agree to just 10 shows when production costs are £25 million!
It makes no money for artist or promoter.
Michael actually signed for 31 straight shows which is break even for production costs. Furthermore, he agreed to a clause that states shows can be increased by mutual agreement between artist and promoter.
He wasn’t forced into these shows. Ortega testified that Michael wised up when told the show would miss opening dates. That’s when Ortega said whatever issues MJ had seemed to disappear and he was very involved with the production again.
If we do a timeline based on the Murray trial, it’ll become clearer what happened to MJ which Dr. Shafer already summarised a few years ago. But, pg13, I think that BOTH the proceedings of the Murray trial AND the Jackson family’s lawsuit against “A.E.G.-LIVE” —— as the events of each court case had transpired —— became increasingly more and more about: That’s what both of these court cases’ proceedings seemed like to me, because, the court system in each case was putting less and less responsibility on the defendants’ behavior and actions, which led up to what ultimately happened.
Blaming something on a man who was not even present in the courtroom to have defended himself against his accusers* (*even when the subject matter of the accusations is different in nature, the accusations were brought forth in a very indirect way [yet, they were made during both court cases, nevertheless], and the accusers are actual representatives of both sides in two completely separate court cases that took place YEARS after the man was deceased) is totally unfair to Michael, his memory, and his reputation, in my view.
In the contrary, the criminal prosecution of Murray blamed him more than Michael Jackson. The caveat was that Murray should have said no, but Michael's wealth made that crazy situation possible.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Oct 14, 2020 13:52:16 GMT
On the contrary, the criminal prosecution of Murray blamed him more than Michael Jackson. The caveat was that Murray should have said “NO,” but Michael’s wealth made that crazy situation possible. While I may agree, pg13, that the trial against Conrad Murray —— as well as the “A.E.G.-LIVE” lawsuit court case —— might have started out like you feel it had, O.T.O.H., I don’t believe it went on, and eventually ended up, that way. As both cases’ proceedings went on and progressed, however, all the way until their end, what probably began at first as an examination of the events in each one....particularly, the defendants’ behavior, that led up to Michael’s passing, eventually turned into a way to blame HIM, as though he were accused of something, rather than the defendants, and for each side in both cases to attempt coming up with excuses for calling him an “addict,” even though, by the time both the criminal trial and the lawsuit each got under way, Michael was already long-gone, and was in absolutely NO position to have defended himself in the courtroom.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 15, 2020 11:27:19 GMT
Timeline of This Is It.
Sources include Lou Ferrigno on Larry King Live and Kenny Ortega's testimony in court.
Mid April to beginning of May - production meetings with Kenny Ortega and Michael Jackson begin.
Rehearsals commenced at Burbank.
May - Lou Ferrigno trains Michael Jackson 3/4 times a week. No weights, but core training, stretching and flexibility based training. Said MJ trained great and belied his age.
Lou Ferrigno didn't see MJ after the end of May.
June
Week commencing 15th June 2009, Michael Jackson missed rehearsals. This was the then planned last week at the Forum.
18th - reports surface that Lou Ferrigno is training Michael Jackson.
June 19, 2009
Ortega was concerned about Michael's well being for the first time.
When asked what he observed about Michael Jackson, he testified that:
And:
Ortega testified under questioning from Prosecutor Walgren that he had never seen Michael Jackson in this state on any previous occasion:
Under further questioning by Walgren, Ortega testified he sent an email to Randy Phillips on June 20, 2009 at 2:04am.
Following Ortega's email, a meeting was scheduled at Carolwood on that same day. It was here when Dr Murray confronted Ortega and told him to stop being an armchair physiologist; to leave Michael's care to him.
The next scheduled day of rehearsal was June 23rd. Michael may or may not have privately rehearsed at Carolwood 21st and 22nd which Ortega testified he sometimes did.
Ortega would go on to testify that Michael was completely different on the 23rd than he was on the 19th.
June 24th conversation with Michael he recounted to the court:
As we can see here, there was no gradual decline in Michael Jackson’s physical condition which will become clearer when we include the words of Dr Shafer.
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Post by pg13 on Oct 15, 2020 11:52:54 GMT
Dr Shafer was asked if there's any known long term health implications from using propofol for an extended period of time.
A factor in what happened to Michael Jackson was the star, his fame and his wealth in Dr Shafer's estimation.
And Dr Shafer's view of Conrad Murray:
And further:
Conclusion based on all the available evidence collected so far:
1) Zero evidence Michael Jackson was anorexic.
2) Zero evidence Michael Jackson was using ephedrine to lose weight.
3) Zero evidence of a gradual physical decline. Especially since the autopsy report and Medical experts concluded Michael Jackson was physically healthy.
4) The chills Michael Jackson experienced could have been withdrawals from demerol, lorazepam or propofol, according to Dr Shafer. But it's hard to know for sure.
5) Michael Jackson died suddenly and due to the negligence of Conrad Murray. And not to do with the condition of his own body.
That's really it.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Oct 16, 2020 13:38:09 GMT
I agree with the results of the Autopsy Report: For his entire life, Michael was ALWAYS very, very small-built, thin and skinny. Also, he was a DANCER throughout most of his life, which is a very physically active, demanding occupation, one that requires the use of a lot of energy. He even said, publicly, that: So, just because some Males don’t necessarily fit into the “big guy with the enormous appetite” stereotype, that in itself is supposed to mean there MUST be something mentally, emotionally, physically and/or psychologically “wrong” with them, is that it? There have been many rumors, outright LIES, a whole lot of gossip and much speculation about Michael, regarding his weight and his health (not only physically, but in other aspects as well). It has to STOP —— once and for all —— and, more people need to come forward and tell THE TRUTH about him.
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2021 10:37:03 GMT
nobody knows.
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Post by pg13 on Jun 11, 2021 11:24:31 GMT
That is quite simply NOT true whatsoever......
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Post by NatureCriminal7896 on Jun 11, 2021 19:25:32 GMT
okay that's your opinion i agree he didn't too.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 6, 2023 20:58:16 GMT
That is quite simply NOT true, whatsoever. You make a great point, here, pg13. This individual has been LIED about for, basically, his whole entire adult life —— from his later-teenage years in the Mid-1970’s,* on the brink of his having just finished puberty/adolescence and going into his full adulthood as a MAN (*when those ugly, nasty rumors about him had first surfaced, before he had ever reached his Early-20’s and recorded the “Destiny” album with his brothers. . . .let alone had released his début adult solo album “Off the Wall” the following year —— which became his best-selling album at that point —— up until just a short time later, of course, with THE ONE album that far surpassed “Off the Wall,” even as huge of an album as it was for its time), and this still continues even long after he passed —— with his surviving family members having to deal with the media trying SO desperately to ruin his reputation, when he hasn’t been in ANY position to defend nor speak up for himself in the last decade and a half or so. What do you think? I want to know.
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Post by LindavG on Jun 7, 2023 3:18:27 GMT
I don't know if Michael had anorexia near the end of his life but it's clear that he's always had a difficult (disordered) relationship with food. He said so himself many times. That he would often forget to eat because he wasn't hungry, that he would fast for days on end during the Thriller era to "cleanse his body", that he wanted to have the slim body of a dancer, that he couldn't eat when he was stressed because it would make him sick, that people around him would get worried for him that he wasn't eating and resting properly when he was on tour, etc. Elizabeth Taylor had to beg and force him to eat, literally feed him with a spoon, during the time of the first allegations in 1993. And he mentioned having anorexia on the Glenda tapes (at 3:45):
This is pure speculation on my part but I feel like Michael's issues with food and eating properly came up mostly when he was under a lot of stress. I don't think he was obsessively counting calories all the time or binging and purging, the sort of behaviour typically associated with eating disorders. But it's obvious he did not always have a healthy approach to food.
Also remember that Janet said Michael regularly fat-shamed her and Michael himself confessed in the Schmuley tapes that he called her a "fat cow" because he hated to see her gain weight. I'm sure it was out of a misguided sense of love but it's still messed up.
Edit: oops, I just realised this is an old thread that has 7 pages and I only read the first one. So anything I said was probably already mentioned. Sorry about that. Also when googling the Schmuley quote I noticed that Schmuley sided with Robson & Safechuck. He always gave me a sleazy, scummy vibe so I'm not surprised. Still disappointing though.
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Post by LindavG on Jun 7, 2023 3:20:58 GMT
Double post
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Post by electriceyes on Jun 7, 2023 6:16:07 GMT
This is pure speculation on my part but I feel like Michael's issues with food and eating properly came up mostly when he was under a lot of stress. I don't think he was obsessively counting calories all the time or binging and purging, the sort of behaviour typically associated with eating disorders. But it's obvious he did not always have a healthy approach to food. Also remember that Janet said Michael regularly fat-shamed her and Michael himself confessed in the Schmuley tapes that he called her a "fat cow" because he hated to see her gain weight. I'm sure it was out of a misguided sense of love but it's still messed up. Edit: oops, I just realised this is an old thread that has 7 pages and I only read the first one. So anything I said was probably already mentioned. Sorry about that. Also when googling the Schmuley quote I noticed that Schmuley sided with Robson & Safechuck. He always gave me a sleazy, scummy vibe so I'm not surprised. Still disappointing though. I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug.
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Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 11, 2023 1:28:20 GMT
Here is a previous post, that really gets to the point:“I agree with the results of the Autopsy Report:” “For his entire life, Michael was ALWAYS very, very small-built, thin and skinny. Also, he was a DANCER throughout most of his life, which is a very physically active, demanding occupation, one that requires the use of a lot of energy. He even said, publicly, that:” “So, just because some Males don’t necessarily fit into the ‘big, large-sized man with the greedy, enormous, compulsively overeating, voracious and ravenous appetite’ stereotype, that in itself is supposed to mean there MUST be something mentally, emotionally, physically and/or psychologically ‘wrong’ with them, is that it? There have been many rumors, outright LIES, a whole lot of gossip and much speculation about Michael, regarding his weight and his health (not only physically, but in other aspects as well). These false assumptions and LIES have to STOP —— once and for all —— and, more people need to come forward and tell THE TRUTH about him.”
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