|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 11, 2023 4:31:24 GMT
This is pure speculation on my part but I feel like Michael's issues with food and eating properly came up mostly when he was under a lot of stress. I don't think he was obsessively counting calories all the time or binging and purging, the sort of behaviour typically associated with eating disorders. But it's obvious he did not always have a healthy approach to food. Also remember that Janet said Michael regularly fat-shamed her and Michael himself confessed in the Schmuley tapes that he called her a "fat cow" because he hated to see her gain weight. I'm sure it was out of a misguided sense of love but it's still messed up. Edit: oops, I just realised this is an old thread that has 7 pages and I only read the first one. So anything I said was probably already mentioned. Sorry about that. Also when googling the Schmuley quote I noticed that Schmuley sided with Robson & Safechuck. He always gave me a sleazy, scummy vibe so I'm not surprised. Still disappointing though. I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug. I don't think it has to do with drugs. MJ was always thin and he was at his thinnest in the mid 80s. He certainly didn't have drug issues then. The insomnia and Propofol at the end of his life certainly didn't help, but to blame his thinness solely on that is ignoring his whole life before that.
BTW, the to me the early 2000s seem like the worst period of drug use by MJ, yet at the time he was rather "thick" than thin (well, in comparison to his usual weight, of course, he was never objectively fat) and he was the thinnest in the mid 80s when he most probably didn't have drug issues. Based on that I'd say it is probably more complicated than drug use.
|
|
|
|
Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 11, 2023 8:13:08 GMT
Conclusion based on all the available evidence collected so far:
1.) ZERO evidence Michael Jackson was anorexic.
2.) ZERO evidence Michael Jackson was using Ephedrine ® to lose weight.
3.) ZERO evidence of a gradual physical decline. Especially, since the Autopsy Report and medical experts concluded Michael Jackson was physically healthy.
4.) The chills Michael Jackson experienced could have been withdrawals from Demerol,® Lorazepam® or Propofol,® according to Dr Shafer. But, it’s hard to know for sure.
5.) Michael Jackson died suddenly and due to the negligence of Conrad Murray, and NOT to do with the condition of his own body.
That’s really it.
That 1980’s career height was THE BEST time of his life (professionally-wise). It was also around the time when he started fasting and doing a lot of dancing as well. Sadly, though, the 1984 accident happened, which led him to depend upon pain-killers to begin with. For the rest of his life, from then on, he would experience other physical injuries as well, that would cause severe, excruciating pain and lead to further dependency.
Not to mention the mental, emotional and psychological stress of having been falsely accused —— not just once, but twice —— the second round of accusations/allegations by a different accuser and his mother, in 2003-2005 (in a case very similar to the original 1993 accuser and his father), which were proven false in court, and a “NOT GUILTY” verdict ruled in favor of acquittal of all charges. That second round of accusations/allegations, and the trial which resulted from them, were THE WORST times in Michael’s life.
We could literally SEE for ourselves, with our very own eyes, how much of a toll the accusations and trial took on him, to the point that, by the end of the proceedings, the jury’s verdict and the judge’s ruling, he was really stressed-out, exhausted and in terrible shape mentally, emotionally, psychologically and physically. Eating food was probably THE very last thing on his mind, at that point. He just was relieved that everything he went through at the trial was finally O-V-E-R, he had truly had enough of it all, and just wanted to get home.
|
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 11, 2023 15:12:01 GMT
I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug. I don't think it has to do with drugs. MJ was always thin and he was at his thinnest in the mid 80s. He certainly didn't have drug issues then. The insomnia and Propofol at the end of his life certainly didn't help, but to blame his thinness solely on that is ignoring his whole life before that.
BTW, the to me the early 2000s seem like the worst period of drug use by MJ, yet at the time he was rather "thick" than thin (well, in comparison to his usual weight, of course, he was never objectively fat) and he was the thinnest in the mid 80s when he most probably didn't have drug issues. Based on that I'd say it is probably more complicated than drug use.
Michael was the same weight at 50 that he was at 25. He was certainly at his heaviest in his early 40s which was when he was struggling with drug addiction again. He didn't have an addiction until 1992 due to scalp pain and the allegations by all accounts. |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 11, 2023 15:15:19 GMT
This is pure speculation on my part but I feel like Michael's issues with food and eating properly came up mostly when he was under a lot of stress. I don't think he was obsessively counting calories all the time or binging and purging, the sort of behaviour typically associated with eating disorders. But it's obvious he did not always have a healthy approach to food. Also remember that Janet said Michael regularly fat-shamed her and Michael himself confessed in the Schmuley tapes that he called her a "fat cow" because he hated to see her gain weight. I'm sure it was out of a misguided sense of love but it's still messed up. Edit: oops, I just realised this is an old thread that has 7 pages and I only read the first one. So anything I said was probably already mentioned. Sorry about that. Also when googling the Schmuley quote I noticed that Schmuley sided with Robson & Safechuck. He always gave me a sleazy, scummy vibe so I'm not surprised. Still disappointing though. I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug. No, Michael wasn't emaciated at the end of his life which is a myth debunked by the autopsy report as well as the courtroom testimony of Dr Shafer. I can understand a lot of people experiencing a clash between their perceptions and the reality. But perceptions is not reality itself. The facts speak for themselves - Michael Jackson was not emaciated and his body was healthy in the physical sense. His death was not gradual, but sudden and unexpected due to medical negligence by Conrad Murray. |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 11, 2023 15:19:24 GMT
Conclusion based on all the available evidence collected so far:
1.) ZERO evidence Michael Jackson was anorexic.
2.) ZERO evidence Michael Jackson was using Ephedrine ® to lose weight.
3.) ZERO evidence of a gradual physical decline. Especially, since the Autopsy Report and medical experts concluded Michael Jackson was physically healthy.
4.) The chills Michael Jackson experienced could have been withdrawals from Demerol,® Lorazepam® or Propofol,® according to Dr Shafer. But, it’s hard to know for sure.
5.) Michael Jackson died suddenly and due to the negligence of Conrad Murray, and NOT to do with the condition of his own body.
That’s really it.
That 1980’s career height was THE BEST time of his life (professionally-wise). It was also around the time when he started fasting and doing a lot of dancing as well. Sadly, though, the 1984 accident happened, which led him to depend upon pain-killers to begin with. For the rest of his life, from then on, he would experience other physical injuries as well, that would cause severe, excruciating pain and lead to further dependency.
Not to mention the mental, emotional and psychological stress of having been falsely accused —— not just once, but twice —— the second round of accusations/allegations by a different accuser and his mother, in 2003-2005 (in a case very similar to the original 1993 accuser and his father), which were proven false in court, and a “NOT GUILTY” verdict ruled in favor of acquittal of all charges. That second round of accusations/allegations, and the trial which resulted from them, were THE WORST times in Michael’s life.
We could literally SEE for ourselves, with our very own eyes, how much of a toll the accusations and trial took on him, to the point that, by the end of the proceedings, the jury’s verdict and the judge’s ruling, he was really stressed-out, exhausted and in terrible shape mentally, emotionally, psychologically and physically. Eating food was probably THE very last thing on his mind, at that point. He just was relieved that everything he went through at the trial was finally O-V-E-R, he had truly had enough of it all, and just wanted to get home.
Michael was physically healthy according to his autopsy. But his mental health was poor which is very clear by Ortega's emails to Randy Phillips and Ortega testified to his mental health. I don't think you can argue Michael wasn't struggling with his mental health during preparations for TII. What is unarguable is that his physical body was actually healthy and his weight was not actually underweight or any real concern for medical experts. |
|
|
|
Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 11, 2023 21:13:16 GMT
. . . .MJ was ALWAYS thin, and he was at his thinnest in the Mid-’80’s. He certainly didn’t have drug issues, then. . . .To blame his thinness solely on that, is ignoring his whole life before that.
He was certainly at his heaviest in his Early-40’s.
Back in his “Thriller” era, he looked quite a bit smaller, even thinner than that. And, on a number of ID cards and personal documents in which his height and weight were listed, the weight was usually somewhat less than in the 130’s, even as recently as when his mug-shot was taken in the Early-2000’s. I’m referring to actual documentation and ID cards that have since been made available to the public, not to any “tabloid” articles, books or statements made in the media that have under-estimated his natural thinness and small size, that say he was ‘extremely underweight,’ going as far back as the 1980’s (making ridiculous, false claims that he supposedly, allegedly ‘weighed less than/no more than 100 pounds’ and that he was suffering from some kind of eating disorders, even way back in those days).
Or, was it that the weight taken of his body during the actual autopsy had read differently (maybe, ‘heavier’) on whatever scale the Coroner had used, to weigh Michael’s body and then list the scale’s reading in the findings of the Report? I’d like to know your opinion. |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 12, 2023 5:21:15 GMT
Michael was the same weight at 50 that he was at 25.
He was certainly at his heaviest in his Early-40’s.
Back in his “Thriller” era, he looked quite a bit smaller, even thinner than that. And, on a number of ID cards and personal documents in which his height and weight were listed, the weight was usually somewhat less than in the 130’s, even as recently as when his mug-shot was taken in the Early-2000’s. I’m referring to actual documentation and ID cards that have since been made available to the public, not to any “tabloid” articles, books or statements made in the media that have under-estimated his natural thinness and small size, that say he was ‘extremely underweight,’ going as far back as the 1980’s (making ridiculous, false claims that he supposedly, allegedly ‘weighed less than/no more than 100 pounds’ and that he was suffering from some kind of eating disorders, even way back in those days).
Or, was it that the weight taken of his body during the actual autopsy had read differently (maybe, ‘heavier’) on whatever scale the Coroner had used, to weigh Michael’s body and then list the scale’s reading in the findings of the Report? I’d like to know your opinion.IIRC, his weight in his mid-20s hovered between 130 and 136lbs, so not a lot different to age 50. No, the coroner weighed his body and organs correctly. |
|
|
|
Post by MattyJam on Jun 12, 2023 11:44:03 GMT
I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug. No, Michael wasn't emaciated at the end of his life which is a myth debunked by the autopsy report as well as the courtroom testimony of Dr Shafer. I can understand a lot of people experiencing a clash between their perceptions and the reality. But perceptions is not reality itself. The facts speak for themselves - Michael Jackson was not emaciated and his body was healthy in the physical sense. His death was not gradual, but sudden and unexpected due to medical negligence by Conrad Murray. I think the trouble is, we carry weight differently as we age. What looks healthy at 25, doesn't necessarily look healthy as we get older. A lot of very slim people look somewhat frail as they reach their 50s and 60s. It's just a normal part of the ageing process. |
|
|
|
Post by Russg on Jun 12, 2023 12:00:21 GMT
I think it was most likely related to his drug use. It's something a lot of fans refuse to acknowledge in MJ, but towards the end of his life he looked emaciated, which was the atypical look of a drug addict. Most drug addicts don't want to eat, their body just craves more of the drug. I don't think it has to do with drugs. MJ was always thin and he was at his thinnest in the mid 80s. He certainly didn't have drug issues then. The insomnia and Propofol at the end of his life certainly didn't help, but to blame his thinness solely on that is ignoring his whole life before that.
BTW, the to me the early 2000s seem like the worst period of drug use by MJ, yet at the time he was rather "thick" than thin (well, in comparison to his usual weight, of course, he was never objectively fat) and he was the thinnest in the mid 80s when he most probably didn't have drug issues. Based on that I'd say it is probably more complicated than drug use.
There is no way you can argue that MJ looked healthy from 06-09. He want gaunt, the ambulance responders who responded to the 911 call commented that they thought he was a cancer patient. |
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Jun 12, 2023 13:36:05 GMT
No, Michael wasn't emaciated at the end of his life which is a myth debunked by the autopsy report as well as the courtroom testimony of Dr Shafer. I can understand a lot of people experiencing a clash between their perceptions and the reality. But perceptions is not reality itself. The facts speak for themselves - Michael Jackson was not emaciated and his body was healthy in the physical sense. His death was not gradual, but sudden and unexpected due to medical negligence by Conrad Murray. I think the trouble is, we carry weight differently as we age. What looks healthy at 25, doesn't necessarily look healthy as we get older. A lot of very slim people look somewhat frail as they reach their 50s and 60s. It's just a normal part of the ageing process. This is where expert courtroom testimony from Dr Shafer is very important. Michael was physically healthy at age 50. There's no doubt about that, from a medical scientific point of view. Once again, perceptions aren't reality and when they clash people feel uncomfortable. In this case, leading to the insistence Michael must've been physically unhealthy despite no evidence to support the view. |
|
|
|
Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 12, 2023 13:44:59 GMT
No, Michael wasn’t emaciated at the end of his life, which is a myth debunked by the Autopsy Report as well as the courtroom testimony of Dr. Shafer.
I can understand a lot of people experiencing a clash between their perceptions and the reality. But, perception is not reality itself.
The facts speak for themselves. Michael Jackson was NOT emaciated, and his body was healthy in the physical sense. His death was not gradual, but sudden and unexpected due to medical negligence by Conrad Murray.
Michael Jackson was one such individual, a man who literally DEFIED stereotypes, mostly through no fault of his own. He simply just was the way he was —— were it physically and/or otherwise, whatever the case —— which a lot of people have a very difficult time accepting.
Many of his “fans” even go into fantasizing about his voice having sounded a certain way (because of how they imagine it must have sounded to them, in their own delusional minds) or about what his body looked like, so long as their imaginary “Michael” version fits the “norm” of the old “machismo” stereotype in some way or another. Do either one of you agree? |
|
|
|
Post by ggbbggbb4455445544 on Jun 12, 2023 13:48:45 GMT
I think, the trouble is, we carry weight differently as we age. What looks “healthy” at 25 doesn’t necessarily look healthy as we get older. A lot of very slim people look somewhat frail as they reach their 50’s and 60’s. It’s just a normal part of the aging process.
Michael Jackson was one such individual, a man who literally DEFIED stereotypes, mostly through no fault of his own. He simply just was the way he was —— were it physically and/or otherwise, whatever the case —— which a lot of people have a very difficult time accepting.
Many of his “fans” even go into fantasizing about his voice having sounded a certain way (because of how they imagine it must have sounded to them, in their own delusional minds) or about what his body looked like, so long as their imaginary “Michael” version fits the “norm” of the old “machismo” stereotype in some way or another. Do either one of you agree? |
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Jun 13, 2023 16:09:51 GMT
I don't think it has to do with drugs. MJ was always thin and he was at his thinnest in the mid 80s. He certainly didn't have drug issues then. The insomnia and Propofol at the end of his life certainly didn't help, but to blame his thinness solely on that is ignoring his whole life before that.
BTW, the to me the early 2000s seem like the worst period of drug use by MJ, yet at the time he was rather "thick" than thin (well, in comparison to his usual weight, of course, he was never objectively fat) and he was the thinnest in the mid 80s when he most probably didn't have drug issues. Based on that I'd say it is probably more complicated than drug use.
There is no way you can argue that MJ looked healthy from 06-09. And I didn't argue that... |
|
|
|
Post by invinciblegal on Jun 14, 2023 6:28:30 GMT
I don't think it has to do with drugs. MJ was always thin and he was at his thinnest in the mid 80s. He certainly didn't have drug issues then. The insomnia and Propofol at the end of his life certainly didn't help, but to blame his thinness solely on that is ignoring his whole life before that.
BTW, the to me the early 2000s seem like the worst period of drug use by MJ, yet at the time he was rather "thick" than thin (well, in comparison to his usual weight, of course, he was never objectively fat) and he was the thinnest in the mid 80s when he most probably didn't have drug issues. Based on that I'd say it is probably more complicated than drug use.
There is no way you can argue that MJ looked healthy from 06-09. He want gaunt, the ambulance responders who responded to the 911 call commented that they thought he was a cancer patient. I think MJ lived a hard life and the 00s especially were a rough time for him. He started to look better around 2003-4 after a rough start to the millenium, but the trial took a massive toll on him, as stressful life events do with anybody. I think by 06-09, a culmination of the stress of the trial, his surgery, his bad sleep habits and his on-off battle with prescription drugs all likely contributed to him appearing somewhat fragile around TII. Considering everything he had to go through, he faired up remarkably well if you ask me. Life usually catches up with people in their 50/60s and MJ went through more than most. |
|
|
|
Post by MattyJam on Jun 14, 2023 15:25:33 GMT
There is no way you can argue that MJ looked healthy from 06-09. He want gaunt, the ambulance responders who responded to the 911 call commented that they thought he was a cancer patient. I think MJ lived a hard life and the 00s especially were a rough time for him. He started to look better around 2003-4 after a rough start to the millenium, but the trial took a massive toll on him, as stressful life events do with anybody. I think by 06-09, a culmination of the stress of the trial, his surgery, his bad sleep habits and his on-off battle with prescription drugs all likely contributed to him appearing somewhat fragile around TII. Considering everything he had to go through, he faired up remarkably well if you ask me. Life usually catches up with people in their 50/60s and MJ went through more than most. I never thought he looked fragile on TII. Too skinny perhaps, but he wouldn't have been able to pull off that dancing if he was as fragile as some fans make him out to be. |
|
