|
Post by pg13 on Oct 12, 2023 18:14:01 GMT
Correction: the thing about rapes was reported by man who witnessed them and the other atrocities, not a woman who was raped. Nevertheless, my point stands: it's perfectly natural to be angry after someone survives and witnesses such horrors. I don't know how it discredits his account when there is physical evidence of brutal atrocities. Anyway, I feel like in the twilight zone about how quickly this turned into a Holocaust denial kind of stuff. And it was only a couple of days ago when terrorists themselves uploaded footage of their atrocities on social media and bragged about them. And then thousands all over the world flocked to the streets to celebrate those atrocities. But now somehow they are starting to say they didn't actually happen and Jews are lying and making them up... Terrorist groups, their fellow travellers, supporters and useful idiots always, always do the DARVO dance. "Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."It doesn't matter which group it is or where in the world. It always happens sooner or later. I've had to deal with it all my life so I made it my mission to understand the ideology of terrorism.
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Oct 12, 2023 18:25:32 GMT
I've seen quite a few people online blaming the UK for the partition of Palestine. The following excerpts have been taken from the United Nations website: www.un.org/unispal/history/"Palestine was among former Ottoman territories placed under UK administration by the League of Nations in 1922. "You can see in this link which countries were members of the League Of Nations in 1922 when Palestine was placed under UK administration. www.britannica.com/topic/League-of-Nations/Members-of-the-League-of-Nations"UK considered various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, the UK turned the Palestine problem over to the UN."Under British administration, Palestine was NOT partitioned, but you will often hear people talking as though it was! So, we move on to the actual partition itself: "After looking at alternatives, the UN proposed terminating the Mandate and partitioning Palestine into two independent States, one Palestinian Arab and the other Jewish, with Jerusalem internationalized (Resolution 181 (II) of 1947)."As we can see, the partition of Palestine was not caused by the British Government alone. The collective members of the United Nations made that decision. "One of the two envisaged States proclaimed its independence as Israel and in the 1948 war involving neighbouring Arab States expanded to 77 percent of the territory of mandate Palestine, including the larger part of Jerusalem. "The Office Of The Historian in the United States says the following: "The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948."history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-warWhether you believe it was Israel or the five Arab nations who started the conflict, it is clear that the United Kingdom is not to blame for the partition as it didn't enact that plan. Partition was a United Nations collective plan. Personally, I would argue it was the FIVE Arab States who kickstarted the Arab-Israeli aka Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 12, 2023 19:04:06 GMT
This may me politically incorrect to say but tell me where's the lie?
Here we are in 2023 in Europe and Jews are not safe again. I have seen another tweet when in a newspaper article they advised parents to hide their kids Jewish identity for safety. Again: is this 2023 or 1930's Germany?
And it's not even unique to this current high tension political situation. It's been going on for many, many years.
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Oct 12, 2023 23:25:38 GMT
The UN states Hamas AND the Palestinian Authority use children as soldiers. "Both the PA and Hamas routinely indoctrinate Palestinian children to aspire to martyrdom through armed confrontations with Israel. According to Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), “the PA operates a systematic and institutionalized policy and program to recruit child soldiers/terrorists.”
In its reports to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) on this issue, PMW accused the PA of indoctrinating Palestinian children to admire and emulate terrorists and noted that “The PA openly admits, that the child terrorists are not acting in a vacuum, but rather they consider them to be the PA’s soldiers who the PA has sent to carry out a mission.”The United Nations below: ,"PA television (TV) broadcast quizzes children on songs with “value and meanings” which PA considers expression of Palestinian “national identity.” One of the songs depicts Israel as the “enemy” and encourages armed attacks: “I'm coming with my rifle… I'm coming towards you, my enemy… with cleavers and knives.” (January 2021).
• Official PA TV children’s program commemorated cartoonist Naji al-Ala, by sharing several cartoons encouraging violence among children, including one where Fatima (Palestinian woman cartoon character) presents an AK47 to Handala (the Palestinian refugee cartoon character) and one of her handing rocks to children. (August 2020).
• Fatah Facebook page promotes child soldiers by sharing video of Jordanian boy in military uniform holding slingshot and rifle. He wants to “shoot Jews” who killed terrorist Omar Abu Laila (killed Israeli soldier, stole his weapon and shot to death Israeli father of 12). (February 2020).
• Hamas TV children’s program interviews young children dressed in military fatigues. One child says he wants to be an engineer when he grows up “so that I can blow up the Jews.” The child host responds “Keep waging Jihad…when you grow up you will wage resistance against the Jews…” (September 4, 2015).More from the United Nations: "In addition, PA and Hamas educational programs routinely portray terrorists as role models and incite children to violence. For example, every year Hamas runs summer camps in which it trains children in military tactics and weapons use.
Likewise, summer camps run by Fatah and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) teach children to venerate famous Palestinian martyrs like Abu Jihad, who was responsible for terror attacks in which 125 Israelis were killed.
Therefore, it is no surprise that Palestinian children perpetrate violent attacks against Israelis and participate in violent confrontations with the goal of harming Israeli soldiers and civilians."There is absolutely NO doubt that Palestinian children ARE taught to hate Israelis. Even worse, they're TRAINED to murder Israelis!
|
|
|
Post by Snow White on Oct 13, 2023 0:32:22 GMT
I wonder if Palestinian children in West Bank are victims of the same kind of indoctrination, religious zealotry and hatred against Israelis, if not, Hamas are an obstacle for peace between Palestinians and Israelis.
Hamas must be wiped out, they're the reason why Gazans don't have a better quality of life and have them as hostages.
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Oct 13, 2023 0:50:46 GMT
I wonder if Palestinian children in West Bank are victims of the same kind of indoctrination, religious zealotry and hatred against Israelis, if not, Hamas are an obstacle for peace between Palestinians and Israelis. Hamas must be wiped out, they're the reason why Gazans don't have a better quality of life and have them as hostages. Palestinians in West Bank are victims of the same kind of indoctrination, religious zealotry and hatred against the Israeli Jews as those in West Bank. The UN says Fatah also use children as soldiers. I've encountered a lot of people tonight in denial of that UN paper. Too many would rather close their eyes and ears than admit they've got it badly wrong on Palestine. This massive clusterfuck has opened my eyes to the extent of anti-semitism in the UK, Republic of Ireland, Europe and all around the world. Thankfully, there are also plenty of people in all those places defending Israel and Jewish people. But they are not the problem. When Jewish schools in London close due to safety fears, but Muslim ones stay open....you know there's a deep problem there. Anyone who opposes every single one of the Palestinian terrorist groups is a friend of mine. Including the minority of Palestinians who do oppose them which isn't many compared to the majority who do, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by Snow White on Oct 13, 2023 2:35:49 GMT
Then Islam is a poisonous disease, a cancer that spreads and metastasize anyone who might still be good and innocent like children.
At this point I'm anti theist, most religions if not all have been detrimental to humanity in some way or another but I must say that Islam is the most dangerous of them all because its adherents believe it's THE LITERAL word of god/Allah, Muslim clergymen haven't been open for reformation unlikely Judaism and Christianity.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 4:10:41 GMT
I wonder if Palestinian children in West Bank are victims of the same kind of indoctrination, religious zealotry and hatred against Israelis, if not, Hamas are an obstacle for peace between Palestinians and Israelis. Hamas must be wiped out, they're the reason why Gazans don't have a better quality of life and have them as hostages. They are. The Palestinian Authority that runs the West Bank is just slightly more "moderate" than Hamas. For example, the PA has the practice of "pay for slay" meaning they financially reward families of people who die in terrorist attacks against Israel or are imprisoned by Israel after such a terrorist attack. This has become a full industry. Meaning that people carry out terrorists attacks to secure their family's financial future.
Also, Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the PA, was elected 18 years ago for a 4 year term. Since then he refused to keep another election. (And if there would be an election in the West Bank they'd likely vote Hamas in power there as well...) His university dissertation was full of Holocaust denial and he has made Holocaust denying, Holocaust reversing (that Jews were responsible for it) and antisemitic comments since too. For example, his latest: www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66741336Also there are claims that he was among the organizers of the terrorist attack against Jewish athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. So that's your supposedly "moderate" Palestinian leader that Israel should negotiate with... And make no mistake, when you hear Palestinian society is against Hamas, that's only in things like corruption, but when it comes to murdering Jews they enjoy almost universal support. Case in point: I'm sorry to say, but this is a sick, toxic society that values and celebrates death, martyrdom, jihad, that's heavily indoctrinated in the most extremist version of Islamic and Arab nationalist ideology from birth. I saw a comment earlier that eradicating Hamas isn't enough, because the ideology will keep on living and it will produce the next Hamas in time. In truth the Palestinian society would need a full "de-nazification" program similar to Germans after WW2. If someone wants to doubt or challenge the above statement, let me ask this way: where are the Palestinian anti-Hamas demonstrations? When Israel supported the Lebanese Christian militia in the 1982 Lebanon war and that milita turned out to have committed grave atrocities, 500,000 people in Israel took to the streets demanding the government to resign. (In a country of 9 million.) Where is the equivalent of this in the Palestinian or even the whole Arab world? I don't expect Gazans to protest against Hamas while they are under Hamas's thumb, but where are the protests from diaspora Palestinians and Arabs in the Western world? Diaspora Iranians, for example, regularly organize protests against the Islamist Iranian government. Where are such protests against Hamas from diaspora Palestinians and other Arabs? Instead in the past days they took to the streets to celebrate Hamas and what they did. That says it all. I'm sorry but even if Israel isn't perfect either (which country is and which country would be in such a difficult situation?) and you can see a video here or there about the odd Jewish extremist (which country doesn't have extremists?), but there's no moral equivalence between the Israeli and the Palestinian society as a whole. In Israeli society extremists are a minority, in Palestinian society extremism is almost universal.
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Oct 13, 2023 5:02:30 GMT
I wonder if Palestinian children in West Bank are victims of the same kind of indoctrination, religious zealotry and hatred against Israelis, if not, Hamas are an obstacle for peace between Palestinians and Israelis. Hamas must be wiped out, they're the reason why Gazans don't have a better quality of life and have them as hostages. They are. The Palestinian Authority that runs the West Bank is just slightly more "moderate" than Hamas. For example, the PA has the practice of "pay for slay" meaning they financially reward families of people who die in terrorist attacks against Israel. This has become a full industry. Meaning that people carry out terrorists attacks to secure their family's financial future.
Also, Mahmoud Abbas, the leader of the PA, was elected 18 years ago for a 4 year term. Since then he refused to keep another election. (And if there would be an election in the West Bank they'd likely vote Hamas in power there as well...) His university dissertation was full of Holocaust denial and he has made Holocaust denying, Holocaust reversing (that Jews were responsible for it) and antisemitic comments since too. For example, his latest: www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-66741336Also there are claims that he was among the organizers of the terrorist attack against Jewish athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. So that's your supposedly "moderate" Palestinian leader that Israel should negotiate with... And make no mistake, when you hear Palestinian society is against Hamas, that's only in things like corruption, but when it comes to murdering Jews they enjoy almost universal support. Case in point: I'm sorry to say, but this is a sick, toxic society that values and celebrates death, martyrdom, jihad, that's heavily indoctrinated in the most extremist version of Islamic and Arab nationalist ideology from birth. I saw a comment earlier that eradicating Hamas isn't enough, because the ideology will keep on living and it will produce the next Hamas in time. In truth the Palestinian society would need a full "de-nazification" program similar to Germans after WW2. If someone wants to doubt or challenge the above statement, let me ask this way: where are the Palestinian anti-Hamas demonstrations? When Israel supported the Lebanese Christian militia in the 1982 Lebanon war and that milita turned out to have committed grave atrocities, 500,000 people in Israel took to the streets demanding the government to resign. (In a country of 9 million.) Where is the equivalent of this in the Palestinian or even the whole Arab world? I don't expect Gazans to protest against Hamas while they are under Hamas's thumb, but where are the protests from diaspora Palestinians and Arabs in the Western world? Diaspora Iranians, for example, regularly organize protests against the Islamist Iranian government. Where are such protests against Hamas from diaspora Palestinians and other Arabs? Instead in the past days they took to the streets to celebrate Hamas and what they did. That says it all. I'm sorry but even if Israel isn't perfect either (which country is and which country would be in such a difficult situation?) and you can see a video here or there about the odd Jewish extremist (which country doesn't have extremists?), but there's no moral equivalence between the Israeli and the Palestinian society as a whole. In Israeli society extremists are a minority, in Palestinian society extremism is almost universal. Powerful post, Powerful. 👏
|
|
|
Post by pg13 on Oct 13, 2023 5:19:36 GMT
The United Nations have provided in their report more evidence of Palestinian children being used to carry out violent acts.
The United Nations tell us all many Palestinian children express desires to become a Jihadist martyr.
Unfortunately, tragically and sadly these children and teenagers are not like our children due to the Gazan social fabric as asserted by NATO StratCom COE too.
"The 2019 report of the United Nations (UN) Commission of Inquiry on the March of Return border confrontations condemned Israel for using “lethal force against children who did not pose an imminent threat of death or serious injury to its soldiers.” The report then proceeded to list the names of 17 children, aged 11-17 who were killed during the confrontations.
However, at least nine of them were documented to be affiliated with terrorist groups. Many of these expressed a desire to die as martyrs and directly participated in violent incidents close to the security fence. For example:
• M. H. (16): Photos and videos show him at the front lines, sabotaging and breaching the fence. He also was a member of the tire burning unit whose job was to create a smokescreen to help rioters breach the fence and attack Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers.
• Y. A. N. (13): Member of known Hamas family whose father is senior member of Hamas’s al-Qassam Brigades. He was with a group of youth attempting to sabotage the border fence. Hamas Supreme Leader Ismail Haniyeh and Hamas Gaza leader Yahya Sinwar attended his funeral.
• I. S. (13): Son of senior Hamas terrorist who was documented throwing stones with a sling shot towards IDF soldiers. According to his mother, the day before his death, he said “I want to go to the [border] and to return as a martyr in the path of Allah.”
• W. S. K. (14): Fatah activist who was documented at the front line of the riots. A day before her death, she told her sister “Maybe this is the last time I have with you. I may return tomorrow as a martyr in the path of Allah.”
• H. J. (14): Participated in Friday border confrontations and told his mother “Allah willing, I’ll become a martyr [shahid] fighting in the path of Allah.”
• M. S. (15): Body was wrapped in Hamas flag at the funeral. According to a Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-linked non-governmental organization, he was shot at “approximately 20 meters from the barbed wire fence and 50 meters from the main fence.”
Outside of Gaza, Palestinian children also regularly engage in violent clashes with the Israeli army and perpetrate terror attacks against Israelis. Some recent examples include:
• 13-year-old Palestinian is shot and killed by Israeli soldiers in violent riots in which rioters threw stones at IDF troops and rolled boulders and burning tires into nearby road. A number of Israelis have been killed by Palestinian rock throwers, including soldiers Amit Ben Yigal and Ronen Lubarsky, 64 year-old Alexander Levlovitz and three-year-old A. B..
• 15-year-old Palestinian is killed in clashes with IDF troops during arrests in Al Furwar refugee camp near Hebron (May 2020).
• 17-year-old Palestinian stabs and injures 22-year-old Israeli (January 2020). • Two teenage Palestinians stab and injure Israeli police officer near Old City of Jerusalem (August 2019).
• 16-year-old Palestinian hurling rocks at passing Israeli vehicles is shot dead by Israeli army (January 2019).
• 17-year-old Palestinian stabs to death 45-year-old Israeli Ari Fuld (September 2018).
UN Watch calls on the Human Rights Council as well as UN human rights officials, including High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet and Rapporteur Michael Lynk, to publicly condemn Palestinian recruitment of child soldiers."
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 7:13:47 GMT
As I watched this another point came to my mind:
Do you ever hear them talk about the two state solution at these protests? No, it's always "globalize the intifada" (which is a call to commit violence against Jews all over the world, not just Israel), "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" (meaning free of Jews from the Jordan river to the Mediterranean sea, ie. the WHOLE of Israel "Judenfrei"). That's not co-existence, that's not a two state solution, that's a call for the destruction of the Jewish state and a genocide of Jews. I have also seen protests where they straight up chanted "We don't want two states, we want all of it".
Polls show that around 2/3 of Palestinians reject the two state solution. Which shows their goal is not living peacefully side-by-side with a Jewish state, their goal is to drive them away from their ancestral homeland.
Left wing rhetoric and pro-Palestine talking points will tell you that Jews are "white colonizers" in Israel, but it is simply not true. Anyone who knows history knows this is the ancestral homeland of the Jews. Anywhere you dig down in Israel you find ancient Jewish artifacts, some thousands of years old. How do you colonize your ancestral homeland? If these people really would be for indigenous rights they'd also acknowledge the indigenous rights of Jews, but Jewish indigenous rights don't count, instead they are feeding lies to the masses who are not knowledgeable about Jewish or Middle Eastern history. It works, unfortunately, as propaganda so often does, so Jews are now considered "white colonizers" in their own ancestral homeland... One of the biggest lies sold to the ignorant masses is that Arabs are the only indigenous people of the Levant. No, they aren't. In fact, they aren't even indigenous to the Levant. Arabs were conquerors - colonizers, if you will - in this area as in the whole of North Africa. Their indigenous homeland is Arabia. Meanwhile the Jewish ethnogenesis happened in the Levant, over a thousand years before Arabs conquered the Middle East. According to the latest scientific, secular stance, Jews were Canaanites, who happened to develop a unique religion that gradually became monotheistic and a new ethnic/cultural/religious/national identity formed around that. This was around 1000 BCE. Islam didn't even exist until 1500 years later and Arabs were still in Arabia. Besides Jews there have been lots of non-Arab indigenous ethnic groups in the ME. In fact, like said above, initially the Levant was NOT Arab dominated. So it is a big lie that the Left pretends that Arabs are the indigenous people of the Middle East and only they should have the right to self-determination there. Ie. only they should have their own countries. Because wouldn't destroying Isreal mean just that? It is the only non-Arab and non-Muslim majority country in the ME, only the size of New Jersey in the sea of dozens of Arab countries with a population of around 400 million. One too many for some, it seems. The reality is if these social justice warriors really cared about indigenous rights, they'd fight for the rights of more non-Arab indigenous people to have their own countries in the ME, not for eradicating the one that exists. For example, the Yazidis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidis) or the Kurds. Do you ever hear the Western left obsess about these groups and their rights the same way they obsess with Palestine and the dismantling of the only non-Arab majority state in the ME? So forgive me if I don't believe that their fight, side-to-side with Arab nationalists and Islamic supremacists, is really about indigenous rights...
Another side note I'd like to make here is, that antisemitism is a shapeshifting phenomenon. In ever society and era the antisemites always associated Jews with whatever was considered evil in that era. In Medieval Europe where Christianity was all important they were bad because they were "the Christ killers". In capitalist societies the Jew was the ultimate communist and in communist societies the ultimate capitalist. In Hitler's Germany the Jew was the "race polluter", definitely anything but white. And now in 21st century leftist ideology, when being white is almost seen as something to be ashamed of in certain circles, the Jew is suddenly made out to be the ultimate "white colonialist" in those circles. Do your math. Same thing, in different disguise.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 7:44:21 GMT
Israel called for 1.1 million Gazans to evacuate from Northern Gaza to the South within 24 hours. It looks like the ground invasion is imminent. Hamas called Gazans to ignore the Israeli instruction. Hamas has a long practice of using civilians as human shields. Every civilian death on the Palestinian side is Hamas's responsibility.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 8:00:34 GMT
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 8:14:23 GMT
Excellent post.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Oct 13, 2023 8:25:46 GMT
The United Nations have provided in their report more evidence of Palestinian children being used to carry out violent acts. The United Nations tell us all many Palestinian children express desires to become a Jihadist martyr. Unfortunately, tragically and sadly these children and teenagers are not like our children due to the Gazan social fabric as asserted by NATO StratCom COE too.
Definitely. Remember this when you read things like "Israel murders Palestinian children". Some are unfortunately really innocent victims of shootouts with militants, but others are combatants themselves. Here is a picture of 13 yo Palestinian child.
Israel doesn't deliberately target and kill innocent children. Hamas does. And their cries over "Israel murdering children" are cynical too considering they deliberately use them as human shields or make little combatants of them, which unfortunately makes them legitimate targets in a war.
|
|