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Post by mjjfan810 on Jan 7, 2018 20:32:00 GMT
Okay, so both MJ and JJ made their respective returns to music in 2001, with Invincible and All For You. Both albums were considered something of a decline in quality by a lot of their fanbases compared to their previous work, but who do you think delivered the superior album?
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Post by Russg on Jan 7, 2018 20:41:59 GMT
Both massive steps down from their previous albums, both have solid tracks and some filler.
Best songs on Invincible are YRMW, Speechless and Butterflies. Best songs on All For You were Doesn't Really Matter, Trust A Try and Son Of A Gun.
To be honest, I think they're kind of on a par. But I guess I'd go with Invincible, because I haven't felt compelled to listen to AFY in years, whereas I still give Invincible the odd spin, and songs like Butterflies and YRMW never really get old.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jan 7, 2018 21:39:40 GMT
Both massive steps down from their previous albums, both have solid tracks and some filler. Best songs on Invincible are YRMW, Speechless and Butterflies. Best songs on All For You were Doesn't Really Matter, Trust A Try and Son Of A Gun. To be honest, I think they're kind of on a par. But I guess I'd go with Invincible, because I haven't felt compelled to listen to AFY in years, whereas I still give Invincible the odd spin, and songs like Butterflies and YRMW never really get old. This is pretty much it.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 7, 2018 22:11:08 GMT
I actually prefer All For You over Velvet Rope, but all of MJ's previous albums over Invincible, yet between these two I'd give it to Invincible because a handful of tracks are classics, but All For You is a more consistent album. So it just comes down to being biased towards MJ because I'm a bigger fan.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 7, 2018 22:39:03 GMT
I actually prefer All For You over Velvet Rope, but all of MJ's previous albums over Invincible, yet between these two I'd give it to Invincible because a handful of tracks are classics, but All For You is a more consistent album. So it just comes down to being biased towards MJ because I'm a bigger fan. All For You over The Velvet Rope? That's crazy talk, and that's saying something, coming from the guy who'd pick Invincible over Bad. The Velvet Rope is drastically superior in every way fathomable, it beggars belief that anyone would think to the contrary. Really azzaabb, are you sure?? As for the answer to this poll, Invincible of course. AFY is not a bad album, but probably one of JJ's weakest (although I don't think she's ever truly made a bad album). And I hate the album cover with a passion. After the iconic covers for RN1814, janet and the creative artwork for TVR, the AFY cover just looks really cheesy and a bit tacky.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 7, 2018 22:49:57 GMT
I actually prefer All For You over Velvet Rope, but all of MJ's previous albums over Invincible, yet between these two I'd give it to Invincible because a handful of tracks are classics, but All For You is a more consistent album. So it just comes down to being biased towards MJ because I'm a bigger fan. All For You over The Velvet Rope? That's crazy talk, and that's saying something, coming from the guy who'd pick Invincible over Bad. The Velvet Rope is drastically superior in every way fathomable, it beggars belief that anyone would think to the contrary. Really azzaabb, are you sure?? As for the answer to this poll, Invincible of course. AFY is not a bad album, but probably one of JJ's weakest (although I don't think she's ever truly made a bad album). And I hate the album cover with a passion. After the iconic covers for RN1814, janet and the creative artwork for TVR, the AFY cover just looks really cheesy and a bit tacky. You don't like the AFY album cover as it's "cheesy and tacky" but what about Invincible?? MJ's worst album sleeve surely! I just couldn't get into The Velvet Rope apart from a few brilliant tracks. I tried so hard to love it but I just couldn't connect with it. I know I'm mental to state AFY is a better album but I was able to instantly enjoy it and make didn't have to put in as much effort. I can definitely see that TVR is more of an artistical piece of work but I don't know, I just found AFY very very enjoyable. Perhaps I'll give TVR ANOTHER go!!
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Post by Snow White on Jan 7, 2018 22:57:34 GMT
My critique is not coming from my dislike of her as a person but the way she sampled You're So Vain by Carly Simon in Son Of A Gun was horribly done that ruined the song for me. I've never been a fan but I didn't disliked Janet in 2001.
So overall, Invincible has stronger songs.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 7, 2018 23:08:25 GMT
My critique is not coming from my dislike of her as a person but the way she sampled You're So Vain by Carly Simon in Son Of A Gun was horribly done that ruined the song for me. I've never been a fan but I didn't disliked Janet in 2001. So overall, Invincible has stronger songs. Why do you disliked her as a person??
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Post by Snow White on Jan 8, 2018 1:08:24 GMT
My critique is not coming from my dislike of her as a person but the way she sampled You're So Vain by Carly Simon in Son Of A Gun was horribly done that ruined the song for me. I've never been a fan but I didn't disliked Janet in 2001. So overall, Invincible has stronger songs. Why do you disliked her as a person?? Things I found out when Michael was still alive: After the trial around 2006-2007 the siblings where bothering him to tour with them and include Janet, Michael refused to do so and they got angry at him. After the public lynching he went through, you'd understand Michael wanted to carry on with his life without the worries and stress touring implies but no, the Jacksons just wanted to see him to ask for money or touring. And how convenient after he refused to tour with with the siblings, stories about family interventions, Michael being addicted to drugs began to circulate. You can read with more detail about it here: youtoobrutus.wordpress.com/2013/08/12/michael-jackson-rehab-interventions-family-concert-tours/In the last years of his life Michael was the sole provider for his mother, she didn't help him. When Michael died: Janet gave a deposit to secure a place to Michael at Forest Lawn but allegedlly his funeral was delayed until she had her money back. What a dick thing to do. After Michael died Janet went back again about Michael's alleged drug addiction and family interventions. Her deplorable behaviour towards his children, especially to Paris when Rebbie, Jermaine, Randall and Janet got their mother away (kidnapped) from PPB in 2012 trying to take over the estate. Another attempt to take over the estate occured last year when Randall and her took their mother to her London house for over a month blaming Trent Jackson (KJ's care taker designated by MJ)of elder abuse. As well as finding out via Scott Ross, the private investigator who worked for Michael's team during the trial that sometimes they were run out of money and for that reason they were paid late but none of the Jacksons stepped out to support Michael finantially, NONE. So in his arker years she was an absolute prick to her brother, she was the last person from the siblings I'd expected to behave like that which disappointed me deeply.
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Post by mistermaxxx08 on Jan 8, 2018 4:01:41 GMT
not big on either album. I give slight edge to MJ for the slow cuts, however not alot to say about either one on a whole.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 8, 2018 4:05:28 GMT
All For You over The Velvet Rope? That's crazy talk, and that's saying something, coming from the guy who'd pick Invincible over Bad. The Velvet Rope is drastically superior in every way fathomable, it beggars belief that anyone would think to the contrary. Really azzaabb, are you sure?? As for the answer to this poll, Invincible of course. AFY is not a bad album, but probably one of JJ's weakest (although I don't think she's ever truly made a bad album). And I hate the album cover with a passion. After the iconic covers for RN1814, janet and the creative artwork for TVR, the AFY cover just looks really cheesy and a bit tacky. You don't like the AFY album cover as it's "cheesy and tacky" but what about Invincible?? MJ's worst album sleeve surely! I just couldn't get into The Velvet Rope apart from a few brilliant tracks. I tried so hard to love it but I just couldn't connect with it. I know I'm mental to state AFY is a better album but I was able to instantly enjoy it and make didn't have to put in as much effort. I can definitely see that TVR is more of an artistical piece of work but I don't know, I just found AFY very very enjoyable. Perhaps I'll give TVR ANOTHER go!! The worst you can say about the Invincible cover is that it's a bit boring. I'll take boring over tacky and cheap anyday. And I actually really like the centrefold sleeve and the MJ dancing collage. It reminds me of an updated version of the Bad centrefold. Fair enough about AFY, I guess. It's not a bad album at all, apart from those dreadful two sex songs in the middle. With TVR, the sex stuff was still on the right side of sensual and classy. By AFY, she had crossed the line to cheap hooker territory, with lyrics like "would you mind me sucking you, fucking you?" etc. I'm not a prude, but there's a time and a place for that kind of stuff and it's called porn. I think this also adds to my distaste for the album cover, leaving an overall taste of classlessness to the whole affair.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jan 8, 2018 10:30:57 GMT
You don't like the AFY album cover as it's "cheesy and tacky" but what about Invincible?? MJ's worst album sleeve surely! I just couldn't get into The Velvet Rope apart from a few brilliant tracks. I tried so hard to love it but I just couldn't connect with it. I know I'm mental to state AFY is a better album but I was able to instantly enjoy it and make didn't have to put in as much effort. I can definitely see that TVR is more of an artistical piece of work but I don't know, I just found AFY very very enjoyable. Perhaps I'll give TVR ANOTHER go!! The worst you can say about the Invincible cover is that it's a bit boring. I'll take boring over tacky and cheap anyday. And I actually really like the centrefold sleeve and the MJ dancing collage. It reminds me of an updated version of the Bad centrefold. Fair enough about AFY, I guess. It's not a bad album at all, apart from those dreadful two sex songs in the middle. With TVR, the sex stuff was still on the right side of sensual and classy. By AFY, she had crossed the line to cheap hooker territory, with lyrics like "would you mind me sucking you, fucking you?" etc. I'm not a prude, but there's a time and a place for that kind of stuff and it's called porn. I think this also adds to my distaste for the album cover, leaving an overall taste of classlessness to the whole affair. Yep, exactly this. Janet basically became an audible porn star on many post TVR tracks.
I mean, if (her best song by a country mile) is pure filth, but still classy and subtle enough to get radio play
How many nights I've laid in bed Excited over you? I've closed my eyes and thought of us A hundred different ways I've gotten there so many times I wonder how 'bout you
Allow me some time to play with your mind And you'll get there again and again Close your eyes and imagine my body undressed Take your time cause we've got all night, ooh You on the rise as you're touchin' my thighs And let me know what you like, if you like I'll go Down, down, down, down, da, down, down I'll hold you in my hand and maybe
Your smooth and shiny feels so good Against my lips, sugar I want you so bad I can taste your love right now, baby
Sexy as hell, with a sophisticated, sultry video to boot. But compare these to the lyrics Matty quoted and it smacks of desperation.
On the Invincble cover, it's weird, as I was thinking about starting a thread of this the other day. One of the things I really did like about Invincible was the cover & CD booklet. It was exactly what was needed after the pomposity of the HIStory album aesthetics. A simple (albeit very digitally altered) cover, simple lyric booklet and inner photos. It was everything the album wasn't which just had everything & the kitchen sink thrown at it.
However, don't get me started on the sick marketing stunt that was 'MJ fans are so stupid they'd buy the album 5 times if it had different colour covers'.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 8, 2018 19:11:06 GMT
Is there a double standard here folks?? I mean if Prince said it...... But yeah I get you guys. I suppose I'm not as invested in Janet as an artist to be honest and I've never really based what I like about her music on the lyrics. If it sounds good to me I like it and no matter how much better The Velvet Rope is I still prefer All For You. Weird eh.
And the album art is great in my opinion. She looks beautiful.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 8, 2018 20:11:54 GMT
Is there a double standard here folks?? I mean if Prince said it...... But yeah I get you guys. I suppose I'm not as invested in Janet as an artist to be honest and I've never really based what I like about her music on the lyrics. If it sounds good to me I like it and no matter how much better The Velvet Rope is I still prefer All For You. Weird eh. And the album art is great in my opinion. She looks beautiful. It did occur to me that some smart aleck would bring up Prince and call me out on my gender hypocrisy. I wish I had an intelligent reply as to why it irks me with Janet and why I think Prince can get away with it, but I don't. It just sounds trashy coming from Janet. I think its part of the whole package. With Prince, the explicit sexual lyrics were always there, and so you came to accept that as part of who he was. With Janet, she literally went from "Lets Wait A While" to "Throb" within the space of one album. That's fine, I'm all for Janet's sexual awakening etc. But when she starts naming songs "Moist", it just feels all a bit gross and tacky. Even Madonna never went that far, at least not in her music.
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Post by aazzaabb on Jan 8, 2018 20:35:01 GMT
Is there a double standard here folks?? I mean if Prince said it...... But yeah I get you guys. I suppose I'm not as invested in Janet as an artist to be honest and I've never really based what I like about her music on the lyrics. If it sounds good to me I like it and no matter how much better The Velvet Rope is I still prefer All For You. Weird eh. And the album art is great in my opinion. She looks beautiful. It did occur to me that some smart aleck would bring up Prince and call me out on my gender hypocrisy. I wish I had an intelligent reply as to why it irks me with Janet and why I think Prince can get away with it, but I don't. It just sounds trashy coming from Janet. I think its part of the whole package. With Prince, the explicit sexual lyrics were always there, and so you came to accept that as part of who he was. With Janet, she literally went from "Lets Wait A While" to "Throb" within the space of one album. That's fine, I'm all for Janet's sexual awakening etc. But when she starts naming songs "Moist", it just feels all a bit gross and tacky. Even Madonna never went that far, at least not in her music. Heehee. Nah you're right man. Prince was doing it from early on. I agree, from Janet's mouth it just smacks of trashiness and a little cheap. She definitely went too far with it, but having said that, I just find AFY a very decent catchy pop album, lyrical content and sexual innuendos aside. It's just very accessible and I find it very easy listening. My favourite from her is Janet followed by Rhythm Nation and Control. Don't get me wrong I really like 4 or 5 from TVR but sitting through the album as one conceptual piece bores me to tears, and after the Janet album I was done with the interludes. I just find her interludes a little cringy. I was delighted that Unbreakable was without interludes.
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