ChrisC
Wondering Who
Posts: 200
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Post by ChrisC on Jan 19, 2018 14:09:55 GMT
I think lyp syncing has a place, I have zero problems with him lyp syncing one or two songs like Jam within the same era it was recorded, but at the very least he should have re-recorded vocals for playback on the HIStory tour, especially given it was 90% lyp sync, It would have made it a much better show in my honest opinion. I sort of agree with you overall though, ideally, you gotta play live. Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with aazzaabb on this one. The HIStory tour would've been a lot more interesting to watch if MJ had bothered to use pre-recorded live vocals instead of just lazily lip-synching to the vocals from the album. With hindsight, sure, it'd be lovely to hear different vocal takes on those classic songs. I adore Michael's voice I'd absolutely love to hear Stranger In Moscow sound a little different to the 5 minutes we have. But it's the length of the deception. It's a step too far. I don't know how to be clearer. For many, Janet's performances with vocals they hadn't heard would be enough to convince them she was singing live. That trick doesn't quite work when someone is lip-synching to some of the most famous records in the world - they are so well known that if there's absolutely no difference, the clues are all there. I don't think for a second that Janet re-recording her vocals was to give her audience added value. She did it to fox people - my opinion.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Jan 19, 2018 14:24:12 GMT
I see what ChrisC is saying, but rerecorded vocals over original CD any day of the week.
Or do what Madonna has done since 2000 for her dance numbers, re-record vocals as backing only that are just audible if you cannot sing & sing over them when you can.
Not for the whole show obviously but for dance tracks the audience gets the best of both worlds, the live vocals for most of it and for times when impossible you can still hear newer vocals.
Also, the one thing I had more of with MJ is alternate versions of his songs.
I adore Bad25 to get live versions of his classics, APOM, WBSS, Billie Jean, Heartbreak Hotel.
Live at the Forum
Jacksons Live.
Amazing.
But that's all we have & it's the same adult songs on all. Nothing live post Bad. All the 4 Dangerous songs on DWT were lip synced. So sad.
For other artists, apologies but let me use Madonna (as it were), I have countless amazing versions of Music, Like A Prayer, Express Yourself etc..etc...
Not just because the vocal was live, but it was a totally diferent version of the song. Sometimes a remix, or sometimes new tempo or sometimes more subtle just slightly extended.
But for the last 25 years, never just the album version.
Now, on occasion that hasn't worked but on the whole it has and it gives the fans a plethora of versions to pick & choose from when the Live CDs get released.
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
Posts: 200
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Post by ChrisC on Jan 19, 2018 14:34:53 GMT
Is it ever impossible? Michael demonstrated right up until 1987 that nothing was impossible on a live stage. Nothing.
When you have to compromise the integrity of a live show you have to consider whether or not it's worth doing. Never swap out substance for style.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Jan 19, 2018 14:47:44 GMT
Is it ever impossible? Michael demonstrated right up until 1987 that nothing was impossible on a live stage. Nothing. When you have to compromise the integrity of a live show you have to consider whether or not it's worth doing. Never swap out substance for style. You can't use MJ on stage up to 1987 to prove a point when MJ on stage post 1992 proves the exact opposite.
I admit there was probably pressure from Sony but there is no way the HIStory tour should have gone ahead on 95-100% playback.
I'm very surprise no-one sued on grounds of trades description act, thinking they were playing to see a live show.
In terms of levels of deception wearing a mic, having a band, having backing vocalists (miming to someone else's vocals) when all someone has done is press play?
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
Posts: 200
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Post by ChrisC on Jan 19, 2018 14:56:24 GMT
Is it ever impossible? Michael demonstrated right up until 1987 that nothing was impossible on a live stage. Nothing. When you have to compromise the integrity of a live show you have to consider whether or not it's worth doing. Never swap out substance for style. You can't use MJ on stage up to 1987 to prove a point when MJ on stage post 1992 proves the exact opposite. No. You used the word impossible. MJ demonstrated that he could put on a technically impressive show, exert himself to the point he's drenched in sweat and sing live - beautifully. It is not impossible. My point was only that. 1992 onwards is therefore irrelevant.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jan 19, 2018 14:59:28 GMT
You can't use MJ on stage up to 1987 to prove a point when MJ on stage post 1992 proves the exact opposite. No. You used the word impossible. MJ demonstrated that he could put on a technically impressive show, exert himself to the point he's drenched in sweat and sing live - beautifully. It is not impossible. My point was only that. 1992 onwards is therefore irrelevant. Okay, well nothing's impossible i guess, so replace my words with extremely difficult to do well.
Plus in all fairness on songs like WBSS and co, MJ was far from 'singing live beautifully', not that I mind, but he missed out many lyrics was very breathy etc.
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
Posts: 200
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Post by ChrisC on Jan 19, 2018 15:01:06 GMT
No. You used the word impossible. MJ demonstrated that he could put on a technically impressive show, exert himself to the point he's drenched in sweat and sing live - beautifully. It is not impossible. My point was only that. 1992 onwards is therefore irrelevant. Okay, well nothing's impossible i guess, so replace my words with extremely difficult to do well.
Plus in all fairness on songs like WBSS and co, MJ was far from 'singing live beautifully', not that I mind, but he missed out many lyrics was very breathy etc.
Well it was beautiful to me.
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Post by respect77 on Jan 19, 2018 16:40:25 GMT
But that's all we have & it's the same adult songs on all. Nothing live post Bad. All the 4 Dangerous songs on DWT were lip synced. So sad.
Dangerous tour rehearsals.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,413
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Post by TonyR on Jan 19, 2018 16:41:20 GMT
But that's all we have & it's the same adult songs on all. Nothing live post Bad. All the 4 Dangerous songs on DWT were lip synced. So sad.
Dangerous tour rehearsals. Well quite, but I wasn't at those
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Post by mjjfan810 on Jan 19, 2018 18:45:04 GMT
Has Janet ever sang live in concert? I remember seeing her in the 90s and thinking she was a great live singer, but now I know she does pre-recorded vocals, I'm wondering if I was hoodwinked?
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Jan 19, 2018 19:47:55 GMT
Has Janet ever sang live in concert? I remember seeing her in the 90s and thinking she was a great live singer, but now I know she does pre-recorded vocals, I'm wondering if I was hoodwinked? I believe the Janet tour and Velvet Rope Tour had much live vocals. The rest is either playback or pre-recorded. She definitely can sing (look up Together Again Oprah where she does live singing+choreography or I Feel Lonely- only her voice and the piano) but she has a thin voice and gets exhausted very easily.
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Post by MattyJam on Jan 20, 2018 13:11:23 GMT
Has Janet ever sang live in concert? I remember seeing her in the 90s and thinking she was a great live singer, but now I know she does pre-recorded vocals, I'm wondering if I was hoodwinked? I believe the Janet tour and Velvet Rope Tour had much live vocals. The rest is either playback or pre-recorded. She definitely can sing (look up Together Again Oprah where she does live singing+choreography or I Feel Lonely- only her voice and the piano) but she has a thin voice and gets exhausted very easily. I've never been able to discern what was live and what was mimed on the TVR tour. I saw it in person and at the time I thought it was all live, it was only when I got the DVD that I suspected it sounded a little too good in places to be fully live. She was definitely better at hiding her lip-syncing than MJ, although I'm not sure whether that is something to be applauded for or not.
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Post by bedroom on Jan 20, 2018 20:24:39 GMT
It must be a very strange life. When you're in the studio for 2 or 3 years recording an album with a small group of people. It's such an introverted stage writing and recording....And then you go on tour and you have to perform in a stadium full of people. It's such an extreme change of atmosphere, life style etc. It's almost a completely different job. I totally understand when artists say they don't like touring. And makes sense someone like Kate Bush did it once and never wanted to again.
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Post by suzie on Feb 20, 2018 20:53:06 GMT
Both massive steps down from their previous albums, both have solid tracks and some filler. Best songs on Invincible are YRMW, Speechless and Butterflies. Best songs on All For You were Doesn't Really Matter, Trust A Try and Son Of A Gun. To be honest, I think they're kind of on a par. But I guess I'd go with Invincible, because I haven't felt compelled to listen to AFY in years, whereas I still give Invincible the odd spin, and songs like Butterflies and YRMW never really get old. Yea theyโre pretty equal. I would give AFU the edge because itโs more cohesive but thatโs it. On Vince there are more songs that are standouts YRMW, Butterflies, Whatever Happens, Break of Dawn
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Post by suzie on Feb 20, 2018 20:54:28 GMT
Lol. I love how you've all made the album cover an issue also. Lets be clear here; the Invincible cover is utter -insert four letter word here! Janet looks amazing on that sleeve, the font is perfect and she's stunning. She stopped singing live?? That factors into AFY being a crap album??? Um...I'm gonna just gonna leave the HIStory tour over here ya'll..... Seriously though, I jest. I'm standing by AFY even more now.๐ Hold on your horses! Even in her prime as a performer Janet compensated her thin lacking voice with a lot of dancing on her tours as well as using backing tracks. Michael's live performances suffered after he had a surgery to remove nodules which was around the Dangerous era, he was told he could either sing in the studio or sing live, not both. There's no comparison since Michael was the best singer from the family even with all his health issues as he got older. Where did you get this info from about MJs surgery?
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