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Post by MattyJam on Apr 23, 2018 11:55:08 GMT
Just for once, could we start an opinion on a thorny or controversial issue like this and when people starting giving answers contrary to what the OP and their allies were expecting, that they do not turn on us and start questioning our loyalty. This is a Michael Jackson fan site for grown ass adults, who love MJ but have adult minds, values and opinions outside of childish and blind fan worship. Here it is LWP, somewhere else it may be the album Invincible, his self indulgence, the failure of certain songs/albums or some other part of his personal life. An open ended question is asked, inviting discussion and when the truth come sout shit starts going crazy. I don't care what no one says, both of his marriages were jokes and for the publicity/children. Michael was married to his art, the perfect musician and dancer he was married to that and no woman would get in the way of his career. God gave Michael the job of dance and song with passion, not to have wives and children. Michael was all this and that, but he was also a human being too, a human being with follies and faults along with the rest of us. To err is human, to acknowledge is Godlike. Michael had that gift of humility. I liked the guy and his music, but I am not a 12 year old with rose tinted glasses who will blow smoke up his ass whenever someone expects me too. Yeah, that's right. We should be able to disagree with each other & have discussions. Otherwise what's next? We can't like the odd different song, without people getting annoyed? Like how it irks you that I prefer Invincible over Bad, you mean? Hang on a minute, TonyR and @triumph1976 agreeing on something?? Have I died and woken up in a parallel universe? Or has hell finally frozen over?
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Apr 23, 2018 11:56:23 GMT
Yeah, that's right. We should be able to disagree with each other & have discussions. Otherwise what's next? We can't like the odd different song, without people getting annoyed? Like how it irks you that I prefer Invincible over Bad, you mean? Hang on a minute, TonyR and @triumph1976 agreeing on something?? Have I died and woken up in a parallel universe? Or has hell finally frozen over? My post was filled with irony
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 23, 2018 11:59:27 GMT
Like how it irks you that I prefer Invincible over Bad, you mean? Hang on a minute, TonyR and @triumph1976 agreeing on something?? Have I died and woken up in a parallel universe? Or has hell finally frozen over? My post was filled with irony You'll have to excuse me, I'm still feeling a little sheepish from not getting your "Pardon?" joke last week. I swear, babies turn your brain to complete mush. That's right, I blame my son.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
Posts: 8,453
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Post by TonyR on Apr 23, 2018 12:00:48 GMT
My post was filled with irony You'll have to excuse me, I'm still feeling a little sheepish from not getting your "Pardon?" joke last week. I swear, babies turn your brain to complete mush. That's right, I blame my son. That's rather convenient.
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 23, 2018 12:02:56 GMT
You'll have to excuse me, I'm still feeling a little sheepish from not getting your "Pardon?" joke last week. I swear, babies turn your brain to complete mush. That's right, I blame my son. That's rather convenient. I got that!!!
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Apr 23, 2018 12:27:08 GMT
Just for the record, I did not mean I thought MJ married to clean up his image. I just always thought it was about having kids. Although some of the posts in this thread seem to say otherwise.
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Post by HIStoric on Apr 23, 2018 12:36:13 GMT
Otherwise what's next? We can't like the odd different song, without people getting annoyed? Okay woah let's not get carried away here Tony.
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Post by bedroom on Apr 23, 2018 12:54:14 GMT
Am I the only one who watched this interview?
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Post by respect77 on Apr 23, 2018 14:16:10 GMT
But you certainly sound like one.
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Post by MattyJam on Apr 24, 2018 7:14:51 GMT
Am I the only one who watched this interview? I already watched this when it first aired, but I watched it again last night after this conversation on this thread. Seeing it again only reaffirms my belief that they were 100% the real deal.
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Post by bedroom on Apr 24, 2018 7:20:51 GMT
Am I the only one who watched this interview? I already watched this when it first aired, but I watched it again last night after this conversation on this thread. Seeing it again only reaffirms my belief that they were 100% the real deal. From what I understand, they had a passionate and intense love/hate kinda relationship which continued after the divorce
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Post by respect77 on Apr 24, 2018 9:43:24 GMT
I already watched this when it first aired, but I watched it again last night after this conversation on this thread. Seeing it again only reaffirms my belief that they were 100% the real deal. From what I understand, they had a passionate and intense love/hate kinda relationship which continued after the divorce I always thought, even before this interview that LMP's behavior to MJ in the early 2000s pretty much proves it was real. I know many fans bash LMP for those interviews and there is reason to criticize her for those, but thing is you don't get that hurt by/mad at someone that you had a sham relationship with.
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Post by Russg on Apr 24, 2018 19:31:19 GMT
From what I understand, they had a passionate and intense love/hate kinda relationship which continued after the divorce I always thought, even before this interview that LMP's behavior to MJ in the early 2000s pretty much proves it was real. I know many fans bash LMP for those interviews and there is reason to criticize her for those, but thing is you don't get that hurt by/mad at someone that you had a sham relationship with. But nobody is suspicious of LMP. It's MJ who people were suspicious of. People believed the timing was strange and that he had ulterior motives in marrying her. The very fact that she acknowledges that she didn't know what to make of their marriage for years afterwards goes to show that she herself wasn't entirely certain of why he wanted to marry her.
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Post by respect77 on Apr 25, 2018 4:25:46 GMT
I always thought, even before this interview that LMP's behavior to MJ in the early 2000s pretty much proves it was real. I know many fans bash LMP for those interviews and there is reason to criticize her for those, but thing is you don't get that hurt by/mad at someone that you had a sham relationship with. But nobody is suspicious of LMP. It's MJ who people were suspicious of. People believed the timing was strange and that he had ulterior motives in marrying her. The very fact that she acknowledges that she didn't know what to make of their marriage for years afterwards goes to show that she herself wasn't entirely certain of why he wanted to marry her. The latest that LMP said about their marriage was this (in 2014): www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/what-i-know-about-men-20140311-34jxp.html While they were married, at the beginning both of them seemed very genuinely happy - MJ included. Then things turned sour and obviously that and the breakup and MJ's way of handling conflicts (just walking away from them) left a bitter taste in LMP's mouth and made her question everything they had before. I am sure her mother and others were also in her ears questioning MJ's love for her, so of course once MJ shut down to her and walked away it was easy for her to feel that way and wonder whether he loved her at all. But this is not unique to them. It happens all the time with couples that they are in love, but in the hindsight of a bad breakup they question whether the other loved them at all. But let's not forget, that MJ has his side either. We know a big conflict between them was having children and MJ might have felt just the same that Lisa didn't love him enough and that's why she didn't want to give him children. There are two sides to everything and I don't know why even some fans refuse to acknowledge MJ's POV and try to blame him and that he supposedly didn't love her. I think he did, but it didn't work out at the end and you can see why and that it wasn't just MJ's fault why it didn't work out. Basically what the Oprah interview is about that in the hindsight of MJ's death now LMP acknowledges her side as well. For the first time, she talked about her mistakes in the marriage as well. For example, previously we only heard of MJ running away for six weeks in 1995. There was no context given to it. That might have given people the impression that he didn't love her or didn't care. Now LMP acknowledged that what preceded it was that she went away on a Scientology trip to Hawaii with her ex-husband, Danny. That bothered Michael and probably his running away was a "tit for tat" kind of thing. If their marriage wasn't real, and if it wasn't real on MJ's side, he wouldn't have been bothered by Lisa going away with Danny. Also we know at the end they argued a lot and Michael just wasn't good at handling conflicts, so it must have been hell to him as well - a woman who is always screaming at him. So he just ran away. But Lisa acknowledged in the hindsight that now she could see that he actually tried hard with her. Let's not forget Lisa is just divorcing her fourth husband. Her marriage to Nicolas Cage lasted 180 days. So it is not like she must be an easy person either.
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milo
Wondering Who
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Post by milo on Apr 25, 2018 4:50:08 GMT
People were suspicious of both of them. Michael was accused of marrying a woman to prove he was heterosexual. Lisa was accused of marrying Michael to pursue a recording career and co-opt him to Scientology. Obviously his reasons would be more sinister since he was a man accused of child molestation, so being cold and calculating enough to marry someone to divert attention from those allegations would fit perfectly with the most common action of a guilty pedophile who was caught. That’s why the media promoted this theory the most.
Lisa’s confusion about their relationship comes from how their relationship ended, situations that happened after their divorce. She says to Oprah she felt very much loved by him in the beginning before the problems between them started. According to Michael, she wanted to reconcile even sending letters promising doing whatever he wanted including having kids, but he said he closed his mind and heart to their relationship. By these circumstances, her anger, hurt and confusion are understandable to me.
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