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Post by MattyJam on Dec 13, 2017 18:00:51 GMT
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think Bad is the most poorly-produced adult solo album in his catalogue. Songwriting wise, yes, it's a work of pop genius. But the production on that album sounded dated even just a few years after it was released. I can scarcely think of an example of an artist who released two consecutive albums with such drastic changes in production as MJ did with Bad to Dangerous. Songs like Just Good Friends and Speed Demon sound like relics when played next to anything from Dangerous, so much so that it is genuinely hard to believe there is only four years between these two records.
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
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Post by ChrisC on Dec 13, 2017 18:54:12 GMT
Speed Demon?
SPEED DEMON!
It is perfection.
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Post by SoCav on Dec 13, 2017 19:58:13 GMT
It's difficult for me. I generally am not a huge fan of the 80s production style. The heavy reliance on drum machines and programmed synths made a lot of potentially good music sound dull. And although I love the lush sound of layered synth textures, many of the early digital synths used in the 80s sounded pretty crappy.
Although Bad is in some ways certainly a product of its time, I think MJ and Quincy made it work (purely speaking of the production here). As you said, there are still more than enough live instruments on it to make it sound alive and energetic. Of course it helps that the songwriting is top-notch.
At the same time, I cannot deny that I am biased. I grew up with this album and therefore would not have it sound any other way. But if I imagine that I did not know the album and someone offered me a double disc set with the album as we know it on disc one, and the alternate universe album where the production style was a la Off The Wall on disc two, then I'm fairly certain I would have opted for the latter.
The live shows could have offered us a bit of an approximation of what this could have sounded like, but unfortunately the Bad Tour live sound was very 80s synth-heavy... at least the rhythm section gave us a taste of what could have been during that energetic performance of Bad in Yokohama (until they get drenched out by those awful synth horns - really REALLY Bad).
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Post by SoCav on Dec 13, 2017 19:59:07 GMT
Speed Demon? SPEED DEMON! It is perfection. Good point. That's an example of a track that likely would never have existed were it not for the use of the technology that MJ had available to him at the time.
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Post by bedroom on Dec 13, 2017 20:21:44 GMT
at least the rhythm section gave us a taste of what could have been during that energetic performance of Bad in Yokohama (until they get drenched out by those awful synth horns - really REALLY Bad). Yeah I wonder why he did not want to get a full band with brass and strings for the Bad Tour. At first I thought it was because of financial issues but Michael at the time could have toured with the London Philharmonic Orchestra if he wanted to....I'm guessing he wanted a contemporary pop sound.
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Dec 13, 2017 20:49:27 GMT
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think Bad is the most poorly-produced adult solo album in his catalogue. Songwriting wise, yes, it's a work of pop genius. But the production on that album sounded dated even just a few years after it was released. I can scarcely think of an example of an artist who released two consecutive albums with such drastic changes in production as MJ did with Bad to Dangerous. Songs like Just Good Friends and Speed Demon sound like relics when played next to anything from Dangerous, so much so that it is genuinely hard to believe there is only four years between these two records. Tony in rare case of agreeing with Matt on Bad shock.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 13, 2017 21:13:51 GMT
I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I think Bad is the most poorly-produced adult solo album in his catalogue. Songwriting wise, yes, it's a work of pop genius. But the production on that album sounded dated even just a few years after it was released. I can scarcely think of an example of an artist who released two consecutive albums with such drastic changes in production as MJ did with Bad to Dangerous. Songs like Just Good Friends and Speed Demon sound like relics when played next to anything from Dangerous, so much so that it is genuinely hard to believe there is only four years between these two records. Tony in rare case of agreeing with Matt on Bad shock. Bloody hell, I actually, legitimately did a double take when I saw you had "liked" my post. I thought you wouldn't hear anything "bad" said about MJs albums from OTW-Dangerous??
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TonyR
The Legend Continues
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Post by TonyR on Dec 13, 2017 21:40:25 GMT
Tony in rare case of agreeing with Matt on Bad shock. Bloody hell, I actually, legitimately did a double take when I saw you had "liked" my post. I thought you wouldn't hear anything "bad" said about MJs albums from OTW-Dangerous?? As much as I love Bad, it has the worst production of OTW thru to HIStory. Not that I'd change it, as it adds to its character. And you're right the jump from Bad to Dangerous is one Greg Rutherford would be proud of. Only Keep The Faith shows signs that this is from the same artist from Bad,
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Dec 13, 2017 21:48:03 GMT
No. No. No. No.
We are not going to shade Bad, are we?
I love this album to death.
But I kinda agree lol.
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Post by mjissosmooth on Dec 13, 2017 22:14:58 GMT
So Dirty Diana sounds dated to you guys? Although something about the very beginning of Another Part of Me sounds very 80s. But I like 80s music so I don't mind it.
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Dec 13, 2017 22:17:39 GMT
So Dirty Diana sounds dated to you guys? Although something about the very beginning of Another Part of Me sounds very 80s. But I like 80s music so I don't mind it. Dirty Diana and Liberian Girl don't sound dated imo, but the rest definitely does. But I don't get why people always think that it must be a bad thing. I'm sure many old hits sound dated but they are still great songs.
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TonyR
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Post by TonyR on Dec 13, 2017 22:43:00 GMT
So Dirty Diana sounds dated to you guys? Although something about the very beginning of Another Part of Me sounds very 80s. But I like 80s music so I don't mind it. Dirty Diana and Liberian Girl don't sound dated imo, but the rest definitely does. But I don't get why people always think that it must be a bad thing. I'm sure many old hits sound dated but they are still great songs. Like I say, I wouldn't change it. But there's no doubt that Bad has a very dated 80's sound. It adds to its charm.
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Post by SoCav on Dec 14, 2017 0:53:49 GMT
So Dirty Diana sounds dated to you guys? Although something about the very beginning of Another Part of Me sounds very 80s. But I like 80s music so I don't mind it. DD does have that typical '80s big gated reverb snare, but because the guitar riff is so central to it, it does indeed sound less dated. Another Part Of Me is again such a great track. I think the synth bass and textures sound pretty cool on this . I do think it could sound significantly better without the drum machine though. Michael's records are so well-produced and just sound so great that it's hard to find fault with it/them. Man in the Mirror remains a masterclass in production to me, even though it contains many of the 80s production hallmarks that I normally tend to dislike.
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Post by SoCav on Dec 14, 2017 1:07:08 GMT
at least the rhythm section gave us a taste of what could have been during that energetic performance of Bad in Yokohama (until they get drenched out by those awful synth horns - really REALLY Bad). Yeah I wonder why he did not want to get a full band with brass and strings for the Bad Tour. At first I thought it was because of financial issues but Michael at the time could have toured with the London Philharmonic Orchestra if he wanted to....I'm guessing he wanted a contemporary pop sound. Yeah, most pop acts sounded pretty bad during their late 80s tours. It's just such a shame that this happened to coincide with Michael's peak as a live performer. And where the production of his albums was so strong that I think it's hard to find fault with it, I don't think that applied to the live band sound, sadly... It wasn't until This Is It that I think he really found a great sounding band again. Even in crappy quality this snippet of Rock With You is just so great. Thriller is pretty epic too, with Moffett really finding the groove there. Imagine this sound with MJ in peak shape in '87, ideally with the Triumph Tour horns section added to the band as well, and David Williams on rhythm guitar? Wow.
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Post by bedroom on Dec 14, 2017 6:58:15 GMT
Yeah I wonder why he did not want to get a full band with brass and strings for the Bad Tour. At first I thought it was because of financial issues but Michael at the time could have toured with the London Philharmonic Orchestra if he wanted to....I'm guessing he wanted a contemporary pop sound. Even in crappy quality this snippet of Rock With You is just so great. First time I'm hearing this. Love it! Those orchestral hits for WBSS on Bad tour immediately brings the quality down. Best band was the Triumph Tour and and vocally he sounds amazing but of course it was before he adopted (with Bad) the angry distorted vocal style which makes everything sound better. Still the Jacksons Live album remains my favourite live album along with the pretty recent Kate Bush live album
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