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Post by mjjfan810 on Dec 14, 2017 19:08:30 GMT
I don't see the issue with the production on Bad. I remember at the time thinking it was the coolest sounding album I ever heard (admittedly I was a teenager at the time without much musical knowledge, but I stand by my feelings about the album even today).
I love a lot of things on Bad that may be considered "dated" today (btw, I hate the term "dated"). That synth solo on the title track by Greg Phillinganes for example, is out of this world. Back in the day when pop music still put an emphasis on real instrumentation and quality musicianship instead of todays world of beat-makers and laptop musicians.
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Post by SoCav on Dec 14, 2017 20:42:21 GMT
Yeah I wonder why he did not want to get a full band with brass and strings for the Bad Tour. At first I thought it was because of financial issues but Michael at the time could have toured with the London Philharmonic Orchestra if he wanted to....I'm guessing he wanted a contemporary pop sound. Yeah, most pop acts sounded pretty bad during their late 80s tours. It's just such a shame that this happened to coincide with Michael's peak as a live performer. And where the production of his albums was so strong that I think it's hard to find fault with it, I don't think that applied to the live band sound, sadly... It wasn't until This Is It that I think he really found a great sounding band again. Even in crappy quality this snippet of Rock With You is just so great. Thriller is pretty epic too, with Moffett really finding the groove there. Imagine this sound with MJ in peak shape in '87, ideally with the Triumph Tour horns section added to the band as well, and David Williams on rhythm guitar? Wow. It's settled. It would have been the best:
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Dec 14, 2017 21:09:59 GMT
Yeah, most pop acts sounded pretty bad during their late 80s tours. It's just such a shame that this happened to coincide with Michael's peak as a live performer. And where the production of his albums was so strong that I think it's hard to find fault with it, I don't think that applied to the live band sound, sadly... It wasn't until This Is It that I think he really found a great sounding band again. Even in crappy quality this snippet of Rock With You is just so great. Thriller is pretty epic too, with Moffett really finding the groove there. Imagine this sound with MJ in peak shape in '87, ideally with the Triumph Tour horns section added to the band as well, and David Williams on rhythm guitar? Wow. It's settled. It would have been the best: This sounds so wrong nooo, I love the Bad Tour.I don't care about the band, I just love the tour too much to change anything lol.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 14, 2017 22:00:52 GMT
It’s definitely dated soundwise and just screams the 1980s with its synths, but I don’t think these are bad things necessarily.
Most music is dated to one degree or another and at the end of the day, it’s still an extremely well-produced pop album that remains one of the best ever.
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
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Post by ChrisC on Dec 15, 2017 13:44:33 GMT
Yeah I wonder why he did not want to get a full band with brass and strings for the Bad Tour. At first I thought it was because of financial issues but Michael at the time could have toured with the London Philharmonic Orchestra if he wanted to....I'm guessing he wanted a contemporary pop sound. Yeah, most pop acts sounded pretty bad during their late 80s tours. It's just such a shame that this happened to coincide with Michael's peak as a live performer. And where the production of his albums was so strong that I think it's hard to find fault with it, I don't think that applied to the live band sound, sadly... It wasn't until This Is It that I think he really found a great sounding band again. Even in crappy quality this snippet of Rock With You is just so great. Thriller is pretty epic too, with Moffett really finding the groove there. Imagine this sound with MJ in peak shape in '87, ideally with the Triumph Tour horns section added to the band as well, and David Williams on rhythm guitar? Wow. The band on This Is It are probably the only thing I find absolutely vital in that project - artistically speaking. The surround sound sonic experience offered by the home release is just gorgeous as well.
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Post by SoCav on Dec 17, 2017 11:46:24 GMT
First time I'm hearing this. Love it! Those orchestral hits for WBSS on Bad tour immediately brings the quality down. Best band was the Triumph Tour and and vocally he sounds amazing but of course it was before he adopted (with Bad) the angry distorted vocal style which makes everything sound better. Still the Jacksons Live album remains my favourite live album along with the pretty recent Kate Bush live album I know, those orchestral hits hurt my ears too. So unfortunate... It's of course true that he started using his gritty vocal style more, but I think an ignored part of it is also that he started to sing at a slightly lower pitch. If you listen to the sample of Things I Do For You in the clip I posted above or the one below, I could have mistaken parts of that for genuine Bad Tour vocals (rather than pitched down Triumph vocals). Might be an interesting discussion for another topic. This sounds so wrong nooo, I love the Bad Tour.I don't care about the band, I just love the tour too much to change anything lol. I get the oddity factor of course. But even if you (try to) turn that off, would you genuinely prefer the Bad Tour style of production over the Triumph tour style with the live horn section? Here's a direct comparison:
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Dec 17, 2017 12:18:33 GMT
First time I'm hearing this. Love it! Those orchestral hits for WBSS on Bad tour immediately brings the quality down. Best band was the Triumph Tour and and vocally he sounds amazing but of course it was before he adopted (with Bad) the angry distorted vocal style which makes everything sound better. Still the Jacksons Live album remains my favourite live album along with the pretty recent Kate Bush live album I know, those orchestral hits hurt my ears too. So unfortunate... It's of course true that he started using his gritty vocal style more, but I think an ignored part of it is also that he started to sing at a slightly lower pitch. If you listen to the sample of Things I Do For You in the clip I posted above or the one below, I could have mistaken parts of that for genuine Bad Tour vocals (rather than pitched down Triumph vocals). Might be an interesting discussion for another topic. This sounds so wrong nooo, I love the Bad Tour.I don't care about the band, I just love the tour too much to change anything lol. I get the oddity factor of course. But even if you (try to) turn that off, would you genuinely prefer the Bad Tour style of production over the Triumph tour style with the live horn section? Here's a direct comparison: No I wouldn't prefer it, of course not 😄 But I still don't care too much about it to be honest, I hardly ever focus on the band (only when it really really sounds horrible... I remember a Thriller rehearsal from the Dangerous tour and it sounded awful).
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Post by SoCav on Dec 17, 2017 14:03:50 GMT
^Gotcha! Yeah, the Dangerous Tour rehearsals are cool because they show us the ideas as they develop, feature more live vocals, and even the odd song that was cut from the final setlist, but I agree that the sound of the band is pretty crappy.
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Post by dancingmjsdream on Dec 17, 2017 17:04:26 GMT
^Gotcha! Yeah, the Dangerous Tour rehearsals are cool because they show us the ideas as they develop, feature more live vocals, and even the odd song that was cut from the final setlist, but I agree that the sound of the band is pretty crappy. And still, Remember The Time live is one of the best things out there 😁
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ChrisC
Wondering Who
Posts: 200
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Post by ChrisC on Dec 17, 2017 19:19:31 GMT
Does the band on Bad hit a little harder than Triumph?
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Post by SoCav on Dec 17, 2017 19:38:28 GMT
^Hmm, maybe it comes across that way because of the way the drums sound during Bad? Very boomy, with that typical massive 80s snare? Personally I prefer the crisper, more natural sound of the Triumph Tour kit.
They did speed up many songs on the Bad Tour. The comparison I made is not entirely fair for instance, because I had to speed up the Triumph tour audio to make it match. In reality, the band played more of a laid back groove, rather than the balls-to-the-wall ballistic version Michael went with in '87. I think the Triumph band easily could have pulled off the sped up version too, the approach was just more to play the songs the way they sounded on the record.
Another difference between the Triumph and Bad versions is that the arrangements during the Bad Tour focused way more on musically accentuating MJ's moves (of which there were many more, of course). At times they go a bit overboard, but generally I do like all those accents they threw in.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 19, 2017 8:18:55 GMT
The band on This Is It are probably the only thing I find absolutely vital in that project - artistically speaking. The surround sound sonic experience offered by the home release is just gorgeous as well. They were a great band. I especially loved the little touches they added to Smooth Criminal.
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Post by MattyJam on Dec 27, 2017 9:56:49 GMT
I got bored and did some merging. It made me feel official and like a proper mod. Hope you guys don't mind.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 10:27:39 GMT
Not at all, but I do mind that you still are not a huge fan of this late 80s masterpiece, it would be my favourite album of all time if it was not for a pesty thing released by some guy called Prince 5 months earlier. Again, production aside it is perfect pop, funk and dance music even with a rock edge. It is all the faces of Michael Jackson and his first cohesive concept album (OFTW and Thriller are masterpieces, but lack the unity and concept of Bad, Dangerous and History) where Michael has a theme, here it is passion and anger.
It made sense to merge too, now we have open threads on OFTW, Thriller and Dangerous and no doubt HIStory and Invincible will attract discussion threads too.
Finally, it was the album that cemented my fandom, I was attracted to Michael with the Thriller singles, but too young to get serious over 1 artist, by the time of Bad, Iw as 11 and developing my tastes in music (Dance, pop and funk/soul), but given I was 11 and had strict parents, artists like Prince were out of reach (Had I been allowed I would have joined the Purple camp with Lovesexy, but had to wait until Diamonds and Pearls), but MJ was so G rated, my parents even encouraged me to listen to him, as his image as a goody two shoes was still stronger than that of him as a shape shifting weirdo.
Despite the G ratedness, it is was perfect music that has stood the test of time.
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Post by mjjfan810 on May 10, 2018 15:01:08 GMT
Honestly, Bad is one of my favorite album openers of all time, by anyone. But then again he's always been really strong with that -- DSTYGE, WBSS, Scream, BOTD... I think they all do a great job of setting the mood and tone of those albums. I loved the title track to Bad from the first moment I heard it. I'm always amazed when people say they don't like it. It announced a new, tough, street MJ to the world.
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