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Post by Russg on Jun 27, 2018 20:56:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 20:57:48 GMT
What about the stuff MJ said? Can people regurgitate that? |
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Post by Russg on Jun 27, 2018 20:59:24 GMT
What about the stuff MJ said? Can people regurgitate that?
Yeah, I think most of the bad impression people have about Joe actually came directly from the family themselves. I don't think Taj can blame the media for this one.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 21:01:48 GMT
What about the stuff MJ said? Can people regurgitate that?
Yeah, I think most of the bad impression people have about Joe actually came directly from the family themselves. I don't think Taj can blame the media for this one.....
Absolutely not. Joe left behind a very dark past that's well documented. There's no sweeping past it. He did some great work for his family, but the abuse they endured was disgusting and horrific. I appreciate that without him there would be no MJ as we know it. |
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Post by Russg on Jun 27, 2018 21:18:02 GMT
Yeah, I think most of the bad impression people have about Joe actually came directly from the family themselves. I don't think Taj can blame the media for this one.....
Absolutely not. Joe left behind a very dark past that's well documented. There's no sweeping past it. He did some great work for his family, but the abuse they endured was disgusting and horrific. I appreciate that without him there would be no MJ as we know it. The thing is about Joe, people make out like he's this genius music manager, but he kind of won the lottery when he had MJ as a son. It wouldn't have taken a genius music manager to convince anybody that Michael Jackson was hugely gifted from a very young age and destined for great things. Joe recognised that raw talent and nurtured it, but the seed started with Michael and I think MJ's talent would've been recognised by someone else had Joe not pushed his children into showbusiness. It was just so obvious that MJ had a rare gift. Joe was in the right place at the right time tbh.
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Post by HIStoric on Jun 27, 2018 21:22:59 GMT
I mean yeah, I have very little respect for him (because of what he has done and what Michael himself has said, not the media as Taj claims).
In saying that it's obvious the Jackson family are in mourning and out of respect for them, especially Michael's children, I'll keep it largely to myself today. My thoughts are with them and I hope they come to find peace.
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Post by MattyJam on Jun 27, 2018 22:08:35 GMT
Absolutely not. Joe left behind a very dark past that's well documented. There's no sweeping past it. He did some great work for his family, but the abuse they endured was disgusting and horrific. I appreciate that without him there would be no MJ as we know it. The thing is about Joe, people make out like he's this genius music manager, but he kind of won the lottery when he had MJ as a son. It wouldn't have taken a genius music manager to convince anybody that Michael Jackson was hugely gifted from a very young age and destined for great things. Joe recognised that raw talent and nurtured it, but the seed started with Michael and I think MJ's talent would've been recognised by someone else had Joe not pushed his children into showbusiness. It was just so obvious that MJ had a rare gift. Joe was in the right place at the right time tbh.
I agree with this. Not to take anything away from Joe's hard work and ruthless determination to succeed, but he was the luckiest stage parent on the planet. The genius that got the Jackson family out of Gary Indiana was Michael, not Joe. Now if he had managed to get LaToya a successful career in the music industry, that really would've been the work of a genius manager. |
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Post by Snow White on Jun 28, 2018 0:39:48 GMT
Absolutely not. Joe left behind a very dark past that's well documented. There's no sweeping past it. He did some great work for his family, but the abuse they endured was disgusting and horrific. I appreciate that without him there would be no MJ as we know it. The thing is about Joe, people make out like he's this genius music manager, but he kind of won the lottery when he had MJ as a son. It wouldn't have taken a genius music manager to convince anybody that Michael Jackson was hugely gifted from a very young age and destined for great things. Joe recognised that raw talent and nurtured it, but the seed started with Michael and I think MJ's talent would've been recognised by someone else had Joe not pushed his children into showbusiness. It was just so obvious that MJ had a rare gift. Joe was in the right place at the right time tbh.
People give to much credit to Joe IMO, if there wasn't for him there wouldn't be the Jackson 5 or Michael Jackson but the truth is that once Michael was old enough (5 years old) to be part of the group, the siblings took off. People seem to not know or forget Joe had already tried with his eldest children and went no where, in the Motown audition tape was quite clear why they were signed in the first place. Michael got them out of Gary. Joe indeed instilled on Michael hard work and dedication to be the best on his craft but I will always hate his brutal approach. If instilling hard work through fear and brutality had been enough, all his children would be successful. Michael was the only prodigy child in the household. I can't bring myself to say something nice about him even if he had a horrible death, I will always resent him for what I said in this post: I may be an asshole for saying this but I resent Joe has lived a longer life than Michael knowing how he exploited, took advantage of him and Joe partially caused the problems that lead him into his premature death. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 2:30:35 GMT
Ain't going to say nothing nasty, just pass on my condolences to the Jackson Family. In many ways Joe was the original member of the Jackson 5, he started it all. The family must be hurting now, June 27 just two days after Michael's anniversary, late June is not going to be a good time for them.
Also cancer is the most horrible and most merciless thing to die from - RIP Joseph Walter Jackson 1929 - 2018
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rhilo
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Post by rhilo on Jun 28, 2018 3:30:47 GMT
I feel nothing just indifference at this news, but nevertheless my thoughts go out to the Jackson family.
It seems Joe mellowed down considerably in his old age and was able to enjoy better relationships with his family and grand kids, and that's a good thing.
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Post by respect77 on Jun 28, 2018 4:37:54 GMT
Absolutely not. Joe left behind a very dark past that's well documented. There's no sweeping past it. He did some great work for his family, but the abuse they endured was disgusting and horrific. I appreciate that without him there would be no MJ as we know it. The thing is about Joe, people make out like he's this genius music manager, but he kind of won the lottery when he had MJ as a son. It wouldn't have taken a genius music manager to convince anybody that Michael Jackson was hugely gifted from a very young age and destined for great things. Joe recognised that raw talent and nurtured it, but the seed started with Michael and I think MJ's talent would've been recognised by someone else had Joe not pushed his children into showbusiness. It was just so obvious that MJ had a rare gift. Joe was in the right place at the right time tbh.
This, exactly this. I am annoyed with some of the comments re. Joe that if not for him we wouldn't have Michael, Janet, Thriller, all the legendary stuff. How do they know? Of course, it is true to any child that if they didn't have their parents they would not have been born, but that doesn't excuse one bit if the parent is horrible and abusive. Nor it is the parent's merit if the child turns out to be talented. As for Joe as a manager, I'm sure he did it at least as much for himself as he did for his children, if not more. Michael was a special talent so with or without Joe's management his talent could have found a way IMO. You also don't have to beat your kids half dead to cultivate their talent. I'm sorry but I don't buy it that without that MJ's talent wouldn't have shone through. And once at Motown it was Motown and Berry Gordy who cultivated them - and that without violence. I don't buy it at all that Joe's extreme violence was needed for MJ's talent to shine through. And fame and money aren't everything either. Joe is the reason for a lot of issues and struggles his children had in life. Not just Michael. Let me remind of this where you can see how much Janet was hurt by him - and admittedly she had it better than the boys before him. I remember a story by Michael that he told the rabbi where he talks about how Janet and him often visualized Joe lying in a coffin and asked each other if they would feel sorry for him and they said "no". It takes a lot of abuse for your child to basically wish you dead. Or to regurgitate even as an adult when you step into the room. Those are some VERY strong reactions. I even saw people now blame the victims, ie. Joseph's children - and especially Michael - for telling the truth about Joseph and giving him a bad rep. Talk about blaming the victim. SMH. Also mental abuse is not discipline. Why was THAT needed acc. to Joe's defenders? Thing is, Joe needed MJ to get out of Gary more than the other way around. MJ was a once in a lifetime talent, his talent would have found a way sooner or later. Joe on the other hand would have spent his life in Gary as a steel mill worker if not for MJ. Let's not forget that. I think Joe mellowed a bit as he aged and that's why he had a considerably better relationship with his grandchildren and also Joh'Voinne. It often happens actually that a crappy parent turns out to be an OK grandparent. So I understand if his grandchildren and Joh'Voinne remember him more fondly and less conflicted than his children. They had a different kind of relationship with him. That doesn't annul those people's experiences to whom Joe caused massive pain and harm. Taj is right in one thing: it is very rude and not OK at all for people to go on his timeline and bash Joseph there now. But we know facts about him that weren't just made up by the media. The Jackson family still tries to sweep things under the rug that are out there in the open for a long time. |
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Post by mistermaxxx08 on Jun 28, 2018 5:27:41 GMT
prayers and thoughts are with the Jacksons Family. respect by Joe Jackson's name.
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Post by mistermaxxx08 on Jun 28, 2018 5:33:56 GMT
one thing about Joe Jackson he never back down in a very racist Music industry and he had the muscle. now him as a parent at times was far from perfect however in that racist business that Man paved the way for MJ and Janet.
tell you something Joe was the reason for the boys leaving Motown. he felt they should write and produce there own material.
Joe felt some kind of way about Quincy Jones as well. he never hid his feelings. Joe knew the game.
yeah he was flawed like the rest of us all, however the man made peace and wanted the best for his children.
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Post by ghost on Jun 28, 2018 6:10:48 GMT
People are being nice about Joe because he just died, but his legacy will always be that of a merciless father who ruled his children by fear and intimidation. In The MJ Tapes, MJ said that Joe used to use the buckle of the belt, to make sure his beatings inflicted maximum pain. There was even one story about how he made him strip nude, oiled him down and used an ironing cord. Now that's not normal old-school discipline from back then, that's physical abuse.
No sympathy. Awful, awful man. I hope in his dying days he felt a fraction of the physical pain he inflicted upon his children. The mental scars he will never understand.
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Post by Vega on Jun 28, 2018 7:04:24 GMT
The best of what can be said has already been said, but it's important to remember that guys like Joe Jackson were pretty common 50 or 60 years ago. His model of discipline and control over his family was hardly unique for a father, especially a Black father, of the time - and neither was the drive to have a better life or to strike it rich.
Just important to keep that in perspective. It seems like his sons have all been far better fathers (occasional absenteeism aside) than he was, which is incredibly positive.
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Dec 5, 2020 18:51:15 GMT
Dec 5, 2020 18:51:15 GMT
