Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 12:51:31 GMT
Historic. Talk to me.
|
|
|
Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 19, 2019 15:19:19 GMT
I already know the entire plot because of leaks, but I'll be seeing it this weekend. And then I will enter this thread and talk about it. I honestly expect to enjoy it because it's star wars and I like star wars, but also I agree with everything Historic had to say in regards to what happens in the film.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Dec 19, 2019 15:31:22 GMT
Palpatine's granddaughter, tho? I didn't see that coming. Lol. I avoided all spoilers and plot leaks.
But it's better than if she had been Luke's secret daughter. That would have been horrible.
Overall I enjoyed it. I think it was OK.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2019 17:16:49 GMT
Palpatine's granddaughter, tho? I didn't see that coming. Lol. I avoided all spoilers and plot leaks. But it's better than if she had been Luke's secret daughter. That would have been horrible. Overall I enjoyed it. I think it was OK. The vitriol online is absolutely hilarious. I hated TLJ but aside from sharing amongst friends or online in groups like this... I dont see the point? I can see why people would have an issue with lots, but for me, it ticked enough boxes for me to thoroughly enjoy myself last night. Work today was hell. 3 hours sleep after a 9 hour cinema endeavour.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Dec 19, 2019 18:09:05 GMT
Palpatine's granddaughter, tho? I didn't see that coming. Lol. I avoided all spoilers and plot leaks. But it's better than if she had been Luke's secret daughter. That would have been horrible. Overall I enjoyed it. I think it was OK. The vitriol online is absolutely hilarious. I hated TLJ but aside from sharing amongst friends or online in groups like this... I dont see the point? I can see why people would have an issue with lots, but for me, it ticked enough boxes for me to thoroughly enjoy myself last night. Work today was hell. 3 hours sleep after a 9 hour cinema endeavour.
So far I avoided any review, spoiler, leak or anything, but I saw yesterday two headlines on the news websites here that I visit that panned it. But I don't really care about what the media has to say. Now, I am looking at SW fan forums and what I see is not vitriol but that quite a lot of fans are actually pleased with the film. It is the media apparently that has the vitriol now. Or better to say, the reviews are VERY divided. It is either "fantastic" or "shit" - there doesn't seem to be a middle ground. At least what I see on these forums. On Rotten Tomatoes it has 58% from critics. (How fucked up critics are is well represented by LN's 98%, though.) No audience ratings yet.
I enjoyed it a lot, but it will have to sink in. Looking back at The Last Jedi, I hardly remember any of it now, and that's a very bad thing from a SW movie. I think this will be a lot more memorable as it was a better film.
I hoped we would get an answer to what made Kylo turn bad. I don't think he just woke up one night saying "I'm bad, I'm bad, really, really bad". Something must have happened. There seemed to have been signs of daddy issues as I remember. But maybe that's for another side project (be it a book or a film). As well as this new idea of Palpatine being a granddady now needs some elaboration. How did that happen? And how did his son not turn out to be bad or messed up with such a dad? But he was really badass again. Funny though that they needed to bring him back to have a real badass villain again.
"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Dec 19, 2019 19:31:08 GMT
NOVEL TIME!
I mean, I've been looking at Reddit and Twitter since the release and with The Last Jedi, it was pretty much you either loved it or hated it. You could find lots of fans on both sides (I generally found the general public edged more towards liking it, but that's just what I found personally). Here, so far it seems that fans generally seemed to be more mixed to negative - though I definitely have seen positive reviews so they exist.
On the whole I did find the film disappointing, but it was alright at best. For me a lot of the issues arose from consistency, in that a lot of past motives of characters - largely set up in The Last Jedi - are nowhere to be seen or uncompletely undone. It feels like Disney/Abrams are trying to pretend as if a lot of what happened in the previous film just did not happen, or doesn't matter. I've seen people who dislike The Last Jedi on social media enjoying this particularly because it's like a middle finger to Rian Johnson and TLJ (quote from a user haha). Unfortunately even if you dislike elements of it, I think too much of that just creates an inconsistency that brings it all down. I didn't care for Rose at all, in a way I'm glad she was barely in this one, but I still think they could've had even a line or two to just inform audiences what has happened since TLJ, because so far we finish TLJ with Rose clearly having a romantic thing for Finn, and then suddenly in TROS it's nowhere to be seen - most likely because of fan reaction. It just creates a lot of inconsistency that's hard to not notice overtime and I think for better or worst, they should've double downed and embraced the changes that were made. I think they could've made for something pretty interesting and unique in this film had they done so.
I was pretty disappointed by the reveal of Rey being a Palpatine. I just remember thinking "...really?" when it happened - The Last Jedi spends a while showing how one doesn't have to be from the right blood to make an impact on the world and I thought it actually made a good development for the series, especially as it starts to wrap up the Skywalker story. It just felt a bit cheap to do that and, again, inconsistent. What's the whole point of that theme in The Last Jedi then? Especially when it was related to those with force abilities. I think it would've been more interesting if they had Rey not be blood related to anyone.
It's really clear they didn't have an overall vision for this trilogy, and it suffered for it. That's not automatically a death wish, hell the original trilogy was pretty much the same too with 3 different directors. The difference is, George Lucas still oversaw the entire trilogy and gave it a pretty consistent vision - and when he had to retcon things (changing Vader from killing Luke's father to being his father for example), they still take the time to properly write that in instead of just ignoring it like it never happened.
The Knights of Ren? As much as I wanted to see them, I didn't mind Rian excluding them from 8 because they're not even mentioned by name in 7 and only briefly seen in Rey's vision. For them to suddenly show up with no explanation, offer little to the plot and then for some inexplicable reason turn against Kylo REN makes no sense. It just creates another big inconsistency; it's clear that both Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams had different visions. I think both 7 and 8 can serve each other perfectly fine, but the Episode 9 we got couldn't serve both. This is back where the overseer point comes in - if Rian Johnson's contributions to the series were too daring or bold or out there, then Lucasfilm should've reigned him in! Honestly either Abrams should've directed the whole trilogy, or they should've had Rian finish Episode 9.
I was quite keen to see the Emperor return, I thought though quite a risky execution, if done right it could really help tie in the sequel trilogy with everything else. I don't think he was though. Abrams offers literally zero explanation as to how the Emperor survived his death in Episode 6, and aside from his theme being heard in Snoke's Throne Room in Episode 8 there is pretty much nothing else in 7/8 to suggest he was still having an influence anywhere. I think him being Snoke is a pretty interesting idea, but it's so briefly touched upon that it would've benefitted them for him to give a brief monologue on it all - just like how Obi-Wan sits down to tell Luke what he meant by Vader murdering his father. What's also not explained is how he managed to build up such a massive fleet without anyone noticing, and get all the resources to such a remote area of the galaxy. I'm not even sure why the Final Order was needed, I mean I guess it persuades Kylo but Episode 8 literally ends with the First Order being of monumental size and the rebellion being able to fit onto the Millennium Falcon - there wasn't really any great need for it and personally, I might've tried to have the Emperor entice him some other way.
And because there is no explanation as to how he survived the end of Episode 6, what's stopping him from surviving the end of Episode 9? They should've given a reason to say why this time he actually is dead. This episode makes me feel the new trilogy is overall unnecessary since weβre effectively back to where we were at the end of Episode VI. Lastly, the film was way too fucking fast-paced. Fast-paced can be fine, just give us breathers here and there!
I know I just spent 4 and a half billion pages explaining what I didn't like about the film, but I still enjoyed parts of it. It was great to see Leia again (even if she was a bit 'choppy' - but there's literally nothing anyone can do about that so I don't hold that against them), it was so great to see the whole crew together at last which was one of my main criticisms of The Last Jedi, I enjoyed the misdirection of Chewbacca's death and completely fell for it (I also liked how Rey shot out lightning. I know it was because "oh look shes a Palp!!1", but at the time for me it showed she was powerful but lacked control). I enjoyed seeing how Hux was trying to bring Kylo down by being the spy, I loved that subplot towards the end of The Last Jedi how there was a clash between them. It was great to see Han Solo again, and I loved hearing all the voices of Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon, Mace Windu etc. I might've done it differently by having them appear visually instead, I think that would've been more impactful, but I'm still grateful they came back AND it is still consistent with the rest of the series (when Anakin begins to slaughter the tusken raiders in AOTC, you hear Qui-Gon screaming out to him). I enjoyed the humour, especially that offered by 3PO - I'm glad he got to come out on this adventure once more and how he annoyed everyone again π
The relationship between Kylo and Rey has been a favourite of mine since TLJ, I loved seeing the evolution of their force projection powers and seeing it evolve to them teleporting objects via the Force was great. I mean seeing Rey give Kylo his grandfather's lightsaber to so effortlessly cut down his own Knights was a great moment. I didn't like them kissing though, I felt a hug would've been more appropriate because there's never any sign of romantic interest between them and a kiss brings it into that territory but I guess you could just say it's a super passionate thing at the moment. I did like Palp's being the voices in Kylo's head, having it switch between him/Snoke/Vader was cool, I just wish they expanded more on it like I said before. Don't mind him dying too much, but it felt weird for the final Skywalker to die but a literal Palpatine blood relation to live on (yeah yeah, she adopted the name Skywalker, but I mean she's still a Palpatine by blood which is what they've gone back to is being so important). I loved seeing how Leia was now teaching Rey the ways of the force. I loved seeing Poe's background expanded upon, maybe I would've liked to see his ex come with him on the adventure but yeah I actually really enjoyed Poe in this one otherwise. The locations we saw - that red forest, that Sith planet, that planet with the snowy town, all cool. The lighting/atmosphere/sound work in Palpyβs first scene? Phenomenal.
I'd probably give it a 3/5 right now, it might increase to 3.5/5 upon further rewatches. They tend to. There is definitely stuff to like in this film, my main issues just come with consistency, lack of explanation and it's end to the trilogy.
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Dec 19, 2019 19:33:25 GMT
As well as this new idea of Palpatine being a granddady now needs some elaboration. How did that happen? My coworker and I did the calculations and we realised Palpatine would've fathered his child in the decade AFTER Revenge of the Sith! So I feel sorry for whoever ended up sleeping with that wrinkly, deformed and decrepit old man (he must've used a mind trick surely!!) π
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Dec 20, 2019 7:29:37 GMT
As well as this new idea of Palpatine being a granddady now needs some elaboration. How did that happen? My coworker and I did the calculations and we realised Palpatine would've fathered his child in the decade AFTER Revenge of the Sith! So I feel sorry for whoever ended up sleeping with that wrinkly, deformed and decrepit old man (he must've used a mind trick surely!!) π
You know, him being the embodiment of evil with no redeeming qualities (unlike Vader), I can only imagine him fathering a child by rape. Definitely not in any type of love/romantic relationship. So maybe that's why his son turn out to be better than him. He was never raised by him, in fact, he probably hated him growing up (if he knew he was his father and what he did to his mother).
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Dec 20, 2019 7:35:10 GMT
My coworker and I did the calculations and we realised Palpatine would've fathered his child in the decade AFTER Revenge of the Sith! So I feel sorry for whoever ended up sleeping with that wrinkly, deformed and decrepit old man (he must've used a mind trick surely!!) π
You know, him being the embodiment of evil with no redeeming qualities (unlike Vader), I can only imagine him fathering a child by rape. Definitely not in any type of love/romantic relationship. So maybe that's why his son turn out to be better than him. He was never raised by him, in fact, he probably hated him growing up (if he knew he was his father and what he did to his mother).
Yeah. I embodied him more using a mind trick on an unsuspecting woman to seduce them, or maybe a prostitute or something, but I also wouldn't put rape out of the question (in fact, I'd say the first method I mentioned would be considered rape).
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Dec 20, 2019 7:36:12 GMT
And I definitely agree the movie was way too fast. That was my main complaint when I discussed it with my family. I don't know if it is a "modern movies" thing, since everything has to be fast and action filled now, but I felt the movie would have benefited from slowing down a bit sometimes. Not every minute has to be filled with action. I just started watching the Mandalorian and I know it is a series, so that's different, but I prefer that pace.
|
|
|
Post by HIStoric on Dec 20, 2019 7:38:52 GMT
Also I saw this film again earlier tonight. I actually did enjoy it more.
Many of my criticisms still stand and I'd do the film differently if I was a director, but the disappointment I had first time round overshadowed a lot of what I DID enjoy (see end of past post). With me going in with what I already knew, it didn't this time so I found myself able to enjoy it more and came out feeling a lot better than the other night. I'd give it a 7 or 7.5 or something.
|
|
|
Post by respect77 on Dec 20, 2019 7:55:35 GMT
Yeah, they probably didn't have a vision for this trilogy or if they had they rewrote it after the criticism The Last Jedi got. To be honest, I don't even remember much of TLJ, so maybe that helped me to enjoy this one. LOL. I know a lot of fans hated it how Luke was made out to be this whiney loser and I have seen fans being pleased that some of it got "fixed" now. So I think a lot of this movie was about fixing what fans didn't like in TLJ.
Although there are some other things now that actually weaken the importance of the original characters. Eg. if Palpatine is still alive, was Vader's sacrifice in vain? Did the prophecy about him really turn out to be true then? Some try to defend that by saying: Palpatine really did die, so the prophecy was right. This now is just some kind of spirit. (Actually it isn't if Rey could have physically killed him.) But it is irrelevant from the POV of the prophecy what form and shape this Palpatine is. The prophecy was not that Vader would kill the Emperor but that he would bring balance in the Force. Did he really? It seems he did not. In whatever form, but Palpatine lived on, still being able to plot, manipulate the world and negatively influence things. Then there is this Mary Sue character of Rey. So everything that Anakin and Luke has failed at, it seems, is now handed on a silver plate to Rey. That's something I saw old fans be bothered by.
|
|
|
Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 20, 2019 20:47:58 GMT
There were some rumours a while back that this film was going to be two films. Some of the reactions make me think that might be true.
|
|
|
Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 1:11:13 GMT
There were some rumours a while back that this film was going to be two films. Some of the reactions make me think that might be true. So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 1:33:24 GMT
There were some rumours a while back that this film was going to be two films. Some of the reactions make me think that might be true. So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more. Reactions are so split. Definitely felt like it could have been 2 flicks. I think Abrams felt trapped by what Johnson had left him with. We all know how we feel about that one so we wont flog that dead horse! Soundtrack is soooo good. This film made me like Ren though. Cant put my finger on why. He had to die though. Just like Vader, they could never survive AND be redeemed. Both mass murderers, regardless of seduction of the dark side. I will go again over Xmas to see if my opinion changes, but I was just looking for boxes ticked. I was not expecting much at all from this, and it was decent. Very enjoyable, but my god at least the prequel trilogy seemed connected. Aside from Snokes death, what of significance carried over to TROS? Shows why a trilogy should never be planned without a plan!
|
|