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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 1:52:46 GMT
So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more. Reactions are so split. Definitely felt like it could have been 2 flicks. I think Abrams felt trapped by what Johnson had left him with. We all know how we feel about that one so we wont flog that dead horse! Soundtrack is soooo good. This film made me like Ren though. Cant put my finger on why. He had to die though. Just like Vader, they could never survive AND be redeemed. Both mass murderers, regardless of seduction of the dark side. I will go again over Xmas to see if my opinion changes, but I was just looking for boxes ticked. I was not expecting much at all from this, and it was decent. Very enjoyable, but my god at least the prequel trilogy seemed connected. Aside from Snokes death, what of significance carried over to TROS? Shows why a trilogy should never be planned without a plan! It seemed really rushed tbh. I think if they had actually explained some things I wouldn't have left the cinema feeling like it was hacked together. I didn't really feel much when watching for most of it. I don't think TLJ had much to to with the flaws of this film lol, JJ could have still made a good film, but I feel it was rushed. Elements like Palpatine made no sense and clearly required explanation that the movie had no space to give. Like, there was clearly stuff there, but it never explained why or how. I'm not saying everything needs explained in movies, I'm just saying that when it's a major part of what little plot the movie has then maybe it should be adequately explained.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 1:55:08 GMT
Reactions are so split. Definitely felt like it could have been 2 flicks. I think Abrams felt trapped by what Johnson had left him with. We all know how we feel about that one so we wont flog that dead horse! Soundtrack is soooo good. This film made me like Ren though. Cant put my finger on why. He had to die though. Just like Vader, they could never survive AND be redeemed. Both mass murderers, regardless of seduction of the dark side. I will go again over Xmas to see if my opinion changes, but I was just looking for boxes ticked. I was not expecting much at all from this, and it was decent. Very enjoyable, but my god at least the prequel trilogy seemed connected. Aside from Snokes death, what of significance carried over to TROS? Shows why a trilogy should never be planned without a plan! It seemed really rushed tbh. I think if they had actually explained some things I wouldn't have left the cinema feeling like it was hacked together. I didn't really feel much when watching for most of it. I don't think TLJ had much to to with the flaws of this film lol, JJ could have still made a good film, but I feel it was rushed. Elements like Palpatine made no sense and clearly required explanation that the movie had no space to give. Like, there was clearly stuff there, but it never explained why or how. I'm not saying everything needs explained in movies, I'm just saying that when it's a major part of what little plot the movie has then maybe it should be adequately explained. There was definitely elements of "this happened, so we are going with this now" alright. I will say this. It developed Poe and Finn way better to the point that I actually cared about them in this. At times Poe felt forced, and Finn and Reys relationship feels like we missed a whole TV series of adventures, but I loved seeing them together.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 22, 2019 9:43:01 GMT
There were some rumours a while back that this film was going to be two films. Some of the reactions make me think that might be true. So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more. I'd rather it not be two movies, that'd fuck up the idea of three trilogies.
Should've adhered more to the plan The Last Jedi set up. Sure, some people might not like it because they don't like The Last Jedi, but fuck at least it'd be consistent.
It's funny because even though I like films such as TPM and AOTC less, at least they're way more consistent than this film. So much stuff is just ignored...
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 22, 2019 9:47:30 GMT
So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more. Reactions are so split. Definitely felt like it could have been 2 flicks. I think Abrams felt trapped by what Johnson had left him with. We all know how we feel about that one so we wont flog that dead horse! Soundtrack is soooo good. This film made me like Ren though. Cant put my finger on why. He had to die though. Just like Vader, they could never survive AND be redeemed. Both mass murderers, regardless of seduction of the dark side. I will go again over Xmas to see if my opinion changes, but I was just looking for boxes ticked. I was not expecting much at all from this, and it was decent. Very enjoyable, but my god at least the prequel trilogy seemed connected. Aside from Snokes death, what of significance carried over to TROS? Shows why a trilogy should never be planned without a plan! Kylo Ren is my favourite character of the sequel trilogy, in fact up until TROS he overtook Vader as my favourite Star Wars villain. I'm not sure about that now, but I guess he could be as his arc was generally still fine for this film.
And I think a trilogy can be begun without a plan, just so long as there's one strong consistent vision behind the films. The original trilogy wasn't THAT fleshed out when Lucas wrote A New Hope, but when he handed over directorship of Empire and Jedi, he kept a very close eye on the films to ensure they were consistent.
Evidently this didn't really happen here, and I think if Rian Johnson's changes to the story were too drastic, Disney should've reigned him in as their job was. Or to be more specific, Kathleen Kennedy who was overseeing this. Which sucks because now we get this.
Like I found the film alright, and I enjoyed it more the second time because I was able to appreciate the things I did enjoy more, but I can't deny that it's disappointing and that I find it's not the finale Star Wars deserves.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 22, 2019 9:52:24 GMT
Although I really liked the Han Solo scene, how it mirrored their final interaction on Starkiller Base. I thought it was really cool seeing Harrison Ford come back. I found it a bit emotional hearing all the Jedi talk to Rey. Anakin, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan (both Ewan and Alec!), Mace Windu, Yoda to name a few... I can't lie I would've preferred to SEE them and I think that would've been even more powerful, but I'm glad they made an audio cameo anyway
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 10:01:04 GMT
Although I really liked the Han Solo scene, how it mirrored their final interaction on Starkiller Base. I thought it was really cool seeing Harrison Ford come back. I found it a bit emotional hearing all the Jedi talk to Rey. Anakin, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan (both Ewan and Alec!), Mace Windu, Yoda to name a few... I can't lie I would've preferred to SEE them and I think that would've been even more powerful, but I'm glad they made an audio cameo anyway You are right. Disney SHOULD have said something about certain choices Johnson made. Like "your parents were no one". That was such a buzz kill in the 2nd one. Thats just one example. I cried seeing Han. No problem admitting that. Ford is like my Movie Buddha tbh. You playing Fallen Empire?
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 22, 2019 10:13:54 GMT
Although I really liked the Han Solo scene, how it mirrored their final interaction on Starkiller Base. I thought it was really cool seeing Harrison Ford come back. I found it a bit emotional hearing all the Jedi talk to Rey. Anakin, Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan (both Ewan and Alec!), Mace Windu, Yoda to name a few... I can't lie I would've preferred to SEE them and I think that would've been even more powerful, but I'm glad they made an audio cameo anyway You are right. Disney SHOULD have said something about certain choices Johnson made. Like "your parents were no one". That was such a buzz kill in the 2nd one. Thats just one example. I cried seeing Han. No problem admitting that. Ford is like my Movie Buddha tbh. You playing Fallen Empire? Honestly... I quite liked that change. I thought it was much more interesting than Rey being someone's relative. In fact I actually kinda cringed in cinema when it was revealed who she was related to, it felt like a copout... there's just such little reference to it before-hand. I'm used to her lineage now though. I think they could've spun the last episode into a personal Kylo vs Rey thing, expand on that more. Expand on Hux's dislike for Kylo ... though I'm glad they brought it up still. One thing I noticed about that on the rewatch was that when Kylo and the other First Order higher-ups were discussing the spy in the conference room, Kylo noticed Hux's unease through the force, and assumed it was because of the helmet. I actually bet it he was uneasy BECAUSE he was the spy! It was just lucky timing that Kylo had repaired his helmet and assumed wrongly (or so I assume).
Speaking of the helmet, I wish they didn't bring it back. I won't lie, it looks cool with the red markings on it now... but there was little point to him bringing it back and it just goes against his character in Episode 8. I mean he takes off the damn thing for good nearly half way through the movie anyway. And continuing on about Kylo, I would've loved to see more Ben Solo! It was really interesting seeing how different Ben Solo moved with the lightsaber as opposed to Kylo, much more swagger. Bet he would've been sarcastic af like his father π
I think I nearly teared up during Han! Not afraid to admit I did tear up during the Jedi part I mentioned earlier. I fucking love Harrison Ford too.
If you mean Fallen Order, yeah actually! I picked it up just the other day on sale, so I'm not far into it. You?
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 12:01:04 GMT
So I saw it and I absolutely think this is the case, if not then I think it should have been two movies. Stuff is just not explained or brushed over. Definitely liked TLJ a lot more. I'd rather it not be two movies, that'd fuck up the idea of three trilogies.
Should've adhered more to the plan The Last Jedi set up. Sure, some people might not like it because they don't like The Last Jedi, but fuck at least it'd be consistent.
It's funny because even though I like films such as TPM and AOTC less, at least they're way more consistent than this film. So much stuff is just ignored...
I'm not saying I wanted it to be two movies. I just think that all the stuff in the film would have needed that to be adequately explained. A lot of it makes no sense and is just thrown in our faces. JJ clearly wanted to pretend the last film didn't exist and just came up with a bunch of new stuff which isn't really how you should approach what is supposed to be the end of a trilogy.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 12:08:27 GMT
You are right. Disney SHOULD have said something about certain choices Johnson made. Like "your parents were no one". That was such a buzz kill in the 2nd one. Thats just one example. I cried seeing Han. No problem admitting that. Ford is like my Movie Buddha tbh. You playing Fallen Empire? Honestly... I quite liked that change. I thought it was much more interesting than Rey being someone's relative. In fact I actually kinda cringed in cinema when it was revealed who she was related to, it felt like a copout... there's just such little reference to it before-hand. I'm used to her lineage now though. I think they could've spun the last episode into a personal Kylo vs Rey thing, expand on that more. Expand on Hux's dislike for Kylo ... though I'm glad they brought it up still. One thing I noticed about that on the rewatch was that when Kylo and the other First Order higher-ups were discussing the spy in the conference room, Kylo noticed Hux's unease through the force, and assumed it was because of the helmet. I actually bet it he was uneasy BECAUSE he was the spy! It was just lucky timing that Kylo had repaired his helmet and assumed wrongly (or so I assume).
Speaking of the helmet, I wish they didn't bring it back. I won't lie, it looks cool with the red markings on it now... but there was little point to him bringing it back and it just goes against his character in Episode 8. I mean he takes off the damn thing for good nearly half way through the movie anyway. And continuing on about Kylo, I would've loved to see more Ben Solo! It was really interesting seeing how different Ben Solo moved with the lightsaber as opposed to Kylo, much more swagger. Bet he would've been sarcastic af like his father π
I think I nearly teared up during Han! Not afraid to admit I did tear up during the Jedi part I mentioned earlier. I fucking love Harrison Ford too.
If you mean Fallen Order, yeah actually! I picked it up just the other day on sale, so I'm not far into it. You?
Definitely agree with everything you said, the point of 8 is that she doesn't need to be related to anyone important, and JJ just dismissing that is kinda lame. Also yeah I actually thought him repairing the helmet went against his character, as did the whole "searching for the Emperor because he challenged his power stuff". Kylo wanted to destroy both the sith and jedi, where did that motivation go? Now he's just sith and is upset someone is more powerful than him? Makes zero sense.
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Post by HIStoric on Dec 22, 2019 12:08:40 GMT
I'd rather it not be two movies, that'd fuck up the idea of three trilogies.
Should've adhered more to the plan The Last Jedi set up. Sure, some people might not like it because they don't like The Last Jedi, but fuck at least it'd be consistent.
It's funny because even though I like films such as TPM and AOTC less, at least they're way more consistent than this film. So much stuff is just ignored...
I'm not saying I wanted it to be two movies. I just think that all the stuff in the film would have needed that to be adequately explained. A lot of it makes no sense and is just thrown in our faces. JJ clearly wanted to pretend the last film didn't exist and just came up with a bunch of new stuff which isn't really how you should approach what is supposed to be the end of a trilogy. Ahh right, gotcha. Yeah I agree.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 12:21:46 GMT
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 12:30:33 GMT
I might go and see it again, not sure. I was really tired when I went to see it last night. Although maybe I just feel how I feel about it.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 14:35:14 GMT
This review pretty much says how I feel about this film. I also agree with the fans looking for something to blame part.
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Post by SmoothGangsta on Dec 22, 2019 21:32:43 GMT
So I wrote down my thoughts on reddit, so I'll just put them here and add a bit as well.
So I have seen the movie twice now and I can say that I enjoyed it more the second time around, probably because I can accept it for what it is.
My main Gripes with the movie are as follows
The movie seemed rushed, a lot of throwaway lines "I made Snoke", how Palpatine actually returned etc. I know not everything needs to explained but this is the last part in a trilogy and nothing that happens in this film was set up in the last. So it's very jarring to have stuff explained by the cast saying "he's been pulling the strings" and stuff like that, it took me out of the movie so much.
Direct contradictions to the previous movie, kylo rebuilding his helmet for literally no reason, him suddenly being a sith (someone has since pointed out to me that it doesn't specify he is sith, although I still feel his actions contradict the last film) and for some reason looking for Palpatine because he is challenging his power, even though at the end of the last film he wanted to destroy both the sith and the jedi to start something new.
The fact that Ian came back for this movie, I love his portrayal of Palpatine and every second of his performance in this film for me was great, I just think it's a shame it had to happen in this film.
The whole Rey is a Palpatine thing, just seems like JJ wanted throw TLJ under the bus and retcon his decisions for no reason. I guess it's how they justified Palpatine returning in this movie.
I liked seeing Mark again but it seemed rather forced within the film, I don't have a problem with him coming back but in the film it felt rather strange to me.
Rey taking the Skywalker name was forced I felt, I think the film could have ended without that happening, easily.
I will say I enjoyed the stuff with Kylo and Rey, I felt that was all very well done, and Leia calling for him was sweet. Honestly Adam was the highlight of the film. I don't have an issue with Ben dying as he had done too much to have a redemption and live, I think it could have been done differently though. The Han vision I thought was done very well, and I liked how it mirrored the interaction for TFA but Kylo was able to commit to what he wanted. Anakin not appearing didn't bother me as it would have made no sense and is an unfortunate consequence of the way this trilogy was made.
What did you guys think?
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Post by aazzaabb on Dec 22, 2019 21:44:38 GMT
Is this thing any good? Was gonna go watch this but canβt be bothered.
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