MJ taking credit for songs he didn't write

There's a big difference between the story involving Buxer and that involving Philliganes.

Philliganes never does exaggerate his involvement in DSTYGE nor does he try to diminish Michael's parts.

He's certainly not biased by any means, so we don't have an element of doubt there.

This is Philliganes' summary in the end which speaks to his integrity, imo:

"There’s a lesson in there and you can take it for what it’s worth. It was a tough pill for me to swallow, but on the other side of that I maintained a relationship with him and his brothers throughout the years. The last thing we did together was the 30th anniversary shows at Madison Square Garden just before the tragic 9/11. After everything I’ve been through with Michael, being MD on his solo tours, the Bad and Dangerous tours and all the stuff that I did with the brothers, all the years of relationships, to culminate in that moment where I’m sitting backstage in the dressing room with the brothers at Madison Square Garden and I’m looking them in the face and I’m going, “Fellows, have a great show.”

I lost out on one end but what I gained I don’t think anyone can replace."

There's no doubt Philliganes was initially promised a 10% co-writers credit and a contract was sent to him regarding this. The initial lp run had both credited as a writer too.

Philliganes is a very balanced, thoughtful and fair witness on this one.

I didn't say Brad shouldn't get credit, so you don't have to convince me about that. But I also saw the story grow to the point where now it's suggested that SIM is all Brad Buxer. That's not right either. That song would not exist without MJ. His contributions are very important to create an actual song out of a chord progression. That's not to say that Brad's contributions are not important. They wrote it together.

I like both Brads, they both seem like nice, genuine and humble people to me. But that doesn't change it that SIM is NOT all Brad Buxer. Like I said maybe there's a desire to compensate Buxer there and it can get to a point where he's overcomensated (in terms of credit, not financially).

But I had this general problem with Brad's seminar that he talked very little about MJ's songwriting. Maybe that's because he's privvy to Buxer's and Botrell's and others contributions so he can talk about that but can't talk about how MJ came up with songs in his head. It was more "Buxer this, Botrell that, Teddy Riley that" on that front. I would have loved to hear the story of MJ going to the studio with full songs and arrangements in his head and singing every instrumental part to the instrumentalist and I don't know if Sundberg is telling it elsewhere but I didn't hear it at the seminar I was at. I don't think it's out of trying to diminish MJ's role or anything, I just think it is simply because Sundberg can only talk about what he's privvy to and obviously he can't say as much about how MJ created the songs in his head as he can talk about seeing Buxer or Botrell or Teddy work on this or that. But this can give a bit of an unbalanced picture IMO, which we always need to keep in mind. I wonder what impression someone who's not knowledgeable of MJ's work would have had about MJ as a songwriter at the seminar. I felt like it wasn't emphasized enough.

If Brad and Greg are such amazing songwriters and contributed so much to DSTYGE and SIM.

Why don't they have any other amazing hit songs?

Funny they were never able to make another song like the ones they are trying to take credit for.

Brad Buxers story is not credible in my opinion. He never claimed SIM until after Michael died and it became a fan favorite and was considered one of Michaels best songs. Before never tried to claim it when it was a mostly unknown song. That's red flag number 1

Also SIM is such a personal song that coincides with the traumatic experience Michael was going through at the time, I just have a hard time believing that Brad just so happen to suddenly write a song that expresses the very emotions MICHAEL was feeling at the time. And the song has Michael's signature imprint all over it, with the beat boxing. Greg just so happened to be able to Mimic Michael's trademark beat boxing? Red flag number 2

Brads story about SIM changed several times and each time he told it he progressively claimed more and more credit. Red Flag number 3. When someone's story continually changes that is a sign they are lying and/or embellishing.

Again I have to ask, where are all of Brad's other SIM moments? There are none, but people just blindly believe his story because they always believe others words over Michael. Theres no proof that what he said is the truth. And even if he is telling the truth, The most likely true story was the first one he told. And I don't see how him laying a few cords means he wrote the song.

I also want to mention that certain fonts in this thread are making claims that not even brad himself claimed. Brad never said he composed the song and yet we have people in here saying he did. Even if you take his most embellished version of the story, he's basically saying he and Michael composed it together. But certain fonts in here have removed Michael from the composition all together all on their own. (They seem shady imo)

Now in regards to Greg, the claim that he should have gotten a song writing credit for 15 seconds of the song is laughable. So because he wrote a 15 second horn part, his name should be listed next to Michael's in the album credits? if his name was listed it would give the impression that he wrote half the song, which he didn't. So I see why Michael didn't want to give him a song writing credit for a song that was 99% his own composition. 

Greg needs to get over it. Michael had already written DSTYGE and greg just improvised a small piece to add.  What he did is no different than when a classical pianist plays a cadenza in a Mozart piece. Just because they improvise a cadenza for a few bars, it doesn't mean they co-wrote the song. And that 15-second bridge was not his own unique composition anyway. it was based off of the rest of the song which Michael wrote.

I agree with Kelley.

DSTYGE horn section deserves an arrangement credit which I think Greg got. Many string sections on songs are composed by musicians who do not get a writers credit. Same with brass sections. That's just how things were.

For example George Martin composed the string arrangement -which is a crucial part of the song  Eleanor Rigby, but I think writing is solely credited to Lennon and McCartney.

Correct. Michael even stated "Greg created that" in the Mexico deposition. A piece of songwriting can be as short as 15 seconds or as long as 30 mins - it'll still be an original piece of writing.

And vis a vis Kelley's "Greg should get over it"....he did years ago which indicates the user clearly did not read Phillinganes' actual remarks.

It's equally ridiculous only Michael is credited as songwriter for Centipede, but John Barnes isn't on it.

Michael admitted in the Mexico deposition he co-wrote it with John.

Yet the liner notes cites Michael Jackson solely. One could say it's politics of some sort, but that's not the point exactly.

We'll always have The Lost Children.