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Post by MattyJam on Feb 18, 2024 10:24:54 GMT
Yeah, that's ridiculous and historically inaccurate. Madonna wouldn't have even been on MJs radar circa WATW-era. Madonna wasn't MADONNA then; "Like a Virgin" album had just been released three months earlier, and this was before her iconic MTV Video Awards performance. If WATW had been recorded in 1986 rather than 1985, she'd have been in far greater demand. Wasn't that MTV VMA performance in 1984? There's always one ghost.... and it's usually SoCav.
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Post by SoCav on Feb 18, 2024 11:20:02 GMT
Wasn't that MTV VMA performance in 1984? There's always one ghost.... and it's usually SoCav. It's an iconic moment! The Madonna fans here would know much better, but my perception has always been that 1984 (even at the time) was seen as the year of the rise to superstardom of Prince, Bruce and Madonna - against the backdrop of MJ already being the well-established global megastar. Because of that I find it hard to believe that Madonna was not on MJ's radar by early 1985, and given her popularity it seems understandable that people would wonder why she wasn't part of the session. Of course the idea that MJ blocked her from participating out of some sort of fear or competitive spirit is nonsensical. Even the biggest cynics should see that, as he was open to having Prince (who was portrayed much more as his rival) sing right next to him.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 18, 2024 13:57:17 GMT
Michael was very competitive himself and certainly wasn't afraid of it. You don't have a career as long or as successful as his being afraid of competition!
If he had no problem working with Prince (failed twice), why would he have a problem with Madonna who wasn't anywhere near as talented or as success?
Michael would've seen opportunity in these kinds of situations.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 18, 2024 14:07:54 GMT
I think you can certainly argue that Prince wasn't as comfortable as Michael was with competition. He was much more insecure than MJ who was an established industry veteran by that point.
After all, it was Prince who ducked WATW & Bad. Not MJ.
I think even Madonna was more comfortable with competition than Prince and her industry experience at the time was more comparable with Prince's.
Sorry, not sorry, Prince fans(!) π€·ββοΈ
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Post by SoCav on Feb 18, 2024 14:54:10 GMT
I think you can certainly argue that Prince wasn't as comfortable as Michael was with competition. He was much more insecure than MJ who was an established industry veteran by that point. After all, it was Prince who ducked WATW & Bad. Not MJ. I think even Madonna was more comfortable with competition than Prince and her industry experience at the time was more comparable with Prince's. Sorry, not sorry, Prince fans(!) π€·ββοΈ I don't disagree that Prince was more insecure about his status during that time. Having said that, I'm not sure that we can really deduce that from WATW and Bad. MJ wrote both those songs, and they were produced by the people he was comfortable working with. Would MJ have been willing to duet on a song Prince wrote and produced, coming down to Paisley Park to record vocals? I don't see it. Would he have eagerly taken a guest spot for a charity project Prince spearheaded with some of his associates? I doubt it. Of course, you can make the point that MJ reached out to Prince and not vice versa, that's fair. And there's also the infamous James Brown birthday party where MJ rose to the occasion and Prince just made a bit of a fool out of himself. Still, ultimately I think both simply liked to be in control, having their own strong artistic visions on which they were not really willing to compromise. That's part of what made them great and unique.
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Post by pg13 on Feb 18, 2024 16:14:52 GMT
I think you can certainly argue that Prince wasn't as comfortable as Michael was with competition. He was much more insecure than MJ who was an established industry veteran by that point. After all, it was Prince who ducked WATW & Bad. Not MJ. I think even Madonna was more comfortable with competition than Prince and her industry experience at the time was more comparable with Prince's. Sorry, not sorry, Prince fans(!) π€·ββοΈ I don't disagree that Prince was more insecure about his status during that time. Having said that, I'm not sure that we can really deduce that from WATW and Bad. MJ wrote both those songs, and they were produced by the people he was comfortable working with. Would MJ have been willing to duet on a song Prince wrote and produced, coming down to Paisley Park to record vocals? I don't see it. Would he have eagerly taken a guest spot for a charity project Prince spearheaded with some of his associates? I doubt it. Of course, you can make the point that MJ reached out to Prince and not vice versa, that's fair. And there's also the infamous James Brown birthday party where MJ rose to the occasion and Prince just made a bit of a fool out of himself. Still, ultimately I think both simply liked to be in control, having their own strong artistic visions on which they were not really willing to compromise. That's part of what made them great and unique. Michael was much more open to other people's ideas and less controlling than Prince was which shows in Michael's more collaborative approach. Something he'd done since Motown. MJ not performing at Live Aid can be put down to Captain Eo and his feeling he'll be too exposed which was almost the reason he pulled out of WATW other than writing the song. So, I think he'd have done so if circumstances were right for him at time of asking.
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Post by LindavG on Feb 22, 2024 21:45:12 GMT
So Cyndi clearly wasn't a fan of the song lol.
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Post by Snow White on Feb 22, 2024 22:08:11 GMT
Why did she show up then if she doesn't like it? I've heard her say that in the past but of course Cyndi didn't mention it in the documentary. Now she looks like she wanted to have brownie points for charity.
To add the link of Cyndi.
Even if she demeaned the song, her voice sounded between forceful and terrible in the first takes, she stood out and it was an iconic moment that a lot of people remember.
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Post by LindavG on Feb 22, 2024 22:56:49 GMT
Why did she show up then if she doesn't like it? I've heard her say that in the past but of course Cyndi didn't mention it in the documentary. Now she looks like she wanted to have brownie points for charity. To add the link of Cyndi. Even if she demeaned the song, her voice sounded between forceful and terrible in the first takes, she stood out and it was an iconic moment that a lot of people remember. Well to be fair, in the documentary they mentioned that Cyndi told Lionel she didn't want to do the song because she didn't like it but he pleaded with her to do it anyway for charity. I think she was diplomatic in her answer here. Quincy was the messy one for calling her "a pain in the back" decades later in public.
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